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Little HorsePowerMeter
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Feliks
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:02 am    Post subject: Little HorsePowerMeter Reply with quote

Little HorsePowerMeter
Tongues in engines manner of measurement of amount of mechanical horse.
Each engine owns invariable parameters about definite , like :
Sum of inertia mass, sum inertia springs, chains ,valves,etc.

Each model of engine has this parameters exactly SAME !!

And if for example, we want it without load for 4000 RPM ,at same time , we need exactly SAME horsepower.
It is principle my idea: Horse Power Meter.

Manner of measurement Horse Power:
Car is stop !!
We have running engine in idle RPM.
We need only same impulse classic RPM meter
Next we push and press i electronic meter switch "measurement"
Next we must push throttle in FULL .
Engine go to eg 5000 RPM.
Electronic measurement TIME with special SOFT , how long engine going measurement period 3000 rpm to 4000 rpm . This TIME are equivalent horsepower of engine.
Little power -long time , normal power - short time
Idea in diagram:

Next diagram electronic of Horsepower Meter, can made little 8 -bit processor eg. AT2051. Small individual Soft for each model of engine:



Engine is gauged in its time of measurement of force LOAD his own.
And it is not necessary has drive testing your car.

Regards Andrew
Idea
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:)
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting idea, but possibly more difficult than your diagram suggests.

Under no load it will be a fraction of a second for the engine to go from the 3000 to 4000 marker. You will need a high resolution input pulse-stream to get an accurate fix at 3000 and 4000RPM, even then it will require interpolation. The engine power output is not constant, so the graph should not be linear - making interpolation harder. If you use a flywheel tooth sensor to measure RPM you will observe that there is a variance (the engine is constantly suffering micro acceleration and micro deceleration) this is the reason we have a flywheel to smooth out these pulses. Anyway, it is going to make the job of identifying the exact moment the RPM marker is reached even more difficult.

An engine operating under these conditions does not produce the same power as under fixed RPM conditions ...
  • often extra fuel is added making the mixture rich
  • a turbo will not have a chance to spool
  • the inertial flow of induction and exhaust systems will be lagging the current cycle timing.

If may give a comparison between identical engines, but I can't see how you will get an accurate horsepower reading and any reading you do get will not be a 'real conditions' figure.
--
Tim.

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-- Timothy Birt --
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Feliks
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile wrote:
Interesting idea, but possibly more difficult than your diagram suggests.

Under no load it will be a fraction of a second for the engine to go from the 3000 to 4000 marker. You will need a high resolution input pulse-stream to get an accurate fix at 3000 and 4000RPM, even then it will require interpolation. The engine power output is not constant, so the graph should not be linear - making interpolation harder. If you use a flywheel tooth sensor to measure RPM you will observe that there is a variance (the engine is constantly suffering micro acceleration and micro deceleration) this is the reason we have a flywheel to smooth out these pulses. Anyway, it is going to make the job of identifying the exact moment the RPM marker is reached even more difficult.

An engine operating under these conditions does not produce the same power as under fixed RPM conditions ...
  • often extra fuel is added making the mixture rich
  • a turbo will not have a chance to spool
  • the inertial flow of induction and exhaust systems will be lagging the current cycle timing.

If may give a comparison between identical engines, but I can't see how you will get an accurate horsepower reading and any reading you do get will not be a 'real conditions' figure.
--
Tim.


Thanks Tim for your professional arguments .
It is only first idea , whose need some development. But this development mostly in software part.
"a turbo will not have a chance to spool" it is true. But is exactly i same time , have same rpm of turbo- it is not full turbo power , but every time SAME power. its important to diagnosis.
Same with exhaust systems gases and other simile actions.

This meter say you very exactly say how power have you engine e.g. with new oil. Meter say what temperature is optimum for max power. Meter say, if all cylinders work, if your fuel is good , if your service made good work, en many more. This meter is exactly , maybe 1 %.

And really, it is not important if really, you have 120 horses or 130 horses, but as you gauge 123 or 133 e.g. or and WHY you have differences on your engine it 3 horses .

Metering power of combustion engine its ARTS, its no easy work.

Regards Andrew Very Happy
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rhinoman
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Horse power meters usually use accelerometers.
Power = Force = mass x acceleration.
You can pick up accelerometers or MEMs gyros reasonably cheaply. Its not difficult to interface them to a small micro. RPM can be read fairly accurately with a bit of filtering.

__________________________________
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1986 SJ413K Pickup, 1.6 conversion
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've designed small dynamometers (few hundred watts) a couple of times, each a different way:

The first time I used an ironless motor as a generator and dumped the generated power as heat in a power resistor, the power dumped is simply voltage multiplied by current. By mapping the power loss in the motor throughout the speed range it is possible to get a quite accurate power measure.

The conventional way to build a dynamometer is to measure torque and angular velocity (RPM); multiply them together and you get power. Measuring the torque is the harder part, but you can buy a torque meter with an electrical output (they usually use a strain gauge bridge with some accurate amplifies). RS used to sell such a device, probably still do.

I have thought about an alternative way of doing this which uses a purely digital technique ... it is possible to have two pulse trains derived from encoders mounted at the ends of a shaft which acts as a torsion spring; the phasing of the pulse trains will be proportional to torque. If the shaft can wind up sufficiently then it will be possible to count whole pulses rather than just a phase difference between the two ends. This is just a thought experiment at the moment, but it seems workable unless anyone can spot any 'gotchas'.
--
Tim.

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Feliks
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rhinoman wrote:
Horse power meters usually use accelerometers.
Power = Force = mass x acceleration.
You can pick up accelerometers or MEMs gyros reasonably cheaply. Its not difficult to interface them to a small micro. RPM can be read fairly accurately with a bit of filtering.


Yes, you right, this idea use " accelerometers". I think , may be best way using electronic accelerometers IC eghttp://www.st.com/stonline/products/families/sensors/accelerometers.htm
I f make lesswireles power and communications, put in too any engine wheel, an may by range RPM of measure HP are in all range of RPM ??
Regards Andrew Think
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Feliks
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Largest in the World project engine .

This name: MULTIBOXER - its radial engine in horizontal position.
This is first cross head radial engine.
If made please using components Wartsila-Sulzer RTA96-C piston, cross head ,rod:

Engine 14 cylinders have 108,920 hp at 102 rpm .
My project engine have 45 cylinders end power ~~ 350. 000 hp
This is better ,so nuclear reactor in aircraft carrier ship.




Last time I do not like something very cogged transmissions too. Very Happy

My horizontal engine need angle transmission.
Its my project cross-heads 90 deg angle transmission:


May by twin cross heads angle replace old "differential" ?? Wink

Andrew :wave:

Pull my innovations story
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Feliks
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New differential:


I don't like noise of differential too... Wink

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Feliks
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mathematical crossing short-circuit,
results of new easy differential :



...and add few viscous couplings Wink

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Feliks
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next short-circuit:


An possible make "lock" Wink



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rhinoman
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Feliks wrote:
Engine 14 cylinders have 108,920 hp at 102 rpm .
My project engine have 45 cylinders end power ~~ 350. 000 hp
This is better ,so nuclear reactor in aircraft carrier ship.


So this is a steam powered engine then. Is this theoretical or are you making one? It seems a lot more complex than the usual steam turbine.

__________________________________
2000 Vitara 4u2, 3+3 lift, 33s, winch, safari rack, steel front axle and 5:83 R&Ps, LWB brakes
1986 SJ413K Pickup, 1.6 conversion
2006 Jimny JLX+, stock
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Feliks
Just got MTs


Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Odometer: 407




PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rhinoman wrote:
Feliks wrote:
Engine 14 cylinders have 108,920 hp at 102 rpm .
My project engine have 45 cylinders end power ~~ 350. 000 hp
This is better ,so nuclear reactor in aircraft carrier ship.


So this is a steam powered engine then. Is this theoretical or are you making one? It seems a lot more complex than the usual steam turbine.


Oh ,rhinoman. I have very often trouble with good translate too English.
I think "There is better force than nuclear reactor on aircraft-carrier "

I was serious trouble translate eg: Popped --mushroom valve in Polish,
Intake port--- intake window in Polish etc.
And I was many pay for translate, and give this fundamental error.
Please, , have for my English tolerance a bit .

May by this see more complex than the usual steam turbine, but diesel engine learn me are better efficient then steam turbine .
See picture:




Right now ,I concentrate on theoretical projects , it is fairest for execution not decide which .
Next about 550 MW power engine project:


Regards Andrew Very Happy
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XrHiNo
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
rhinoman wrote:
Feliks wrote:
Engine 14 cylinders have 108,920 hp at 102 rpm .
My project engine have 45 cylinders end power ~~ 350. 000 hp
This is better ,so nuclear reactor in aircraft carrier ship.



So this is a steam powered engine then. Is this theoretical or are you making one? It seems a lot more complex than the usual steam turbine.


Fred Dibnah will be turning in his grave.
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Feliks
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And precise differential:



Regards Andrew Very Happy
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rhinoman
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry about the English, we will try to understand. I find your designs interesting, I'm sure others do too. In terms of efficiency the steam turbine may be less efficient but if you have an on-board reactor then you only have to carry a small amount of fuel for back up engines.
Have you seen the electric motors on the new Anglo-French carrier?

__________________________________
2000 Vitara 4u2, 3+3 lift, 33s, winch, safari rack, steel front axle and 5:83 R&Ps, LWB brakes
1986 SJ413K Pickup, 1.6 conversion
2006 Jimny JLX+, stock
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Feliks
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Originally posted by Feliks


For hi power system my version this good idea:


Better is good enemy !!




Different new sites in animation Solid Works of new differential.
http://www.new4stroke.com/differ.wmv

rhinoman wrote:
Don't worry about the English, we will try to understand. I find your designs interesting, I'm sure others do too. In terms of efficiency the steam turbine may be less efficient but if you have an on-board reactor then you only have to carry a small amount of fuel for back up engines.
Have you seen the electric motors on the new Anglo-French carrier?










550 MW

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Feliks
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Last edited by Feliks on Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:49 am; edited 2 times in total
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Feliks
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And animations:





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Feliks
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Feliks
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my oscillating dynamo I help cellular telephone IC Lm 2621.
May be cellular telephone need advanced mechanic?? Idea

If put in cellular telephone mechanic automatic movement,using in mechanic clock, and miniature electric generator drive it, we don't need charge cellular telephone.Phone will be loaded on our result of traffic, obvious as there will be in our pocket

Some parts and principle work of automatic movement:











Perhaps, we must use e.g. 6 such systems, in order to can be charge phone goods .?
Same philosophy : no one big , many little.

May be Swiss precision it will astonish again .

Regards Andrew Very Happy



May be Swiss precision it will astonish again .

My propose for yacht: On highest point of mast instead of flag,for example,box belongs to place with such array: 20 pcs X 20 pcs X 60 pcs systems (50 cm x 50cm x 30 cm). All 24000 system's. And I think, so enough for made electric energy for yacht. Without any fuel.
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Feliks
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is possible build closest house fiberglass mast too and we insert dynamo in this highest place. When wind blows this e.g 15 meter mast too have some movement.
Without barrier for birds , and no sound effect. And looks better Rolling Eyes

Andrew Very Happy Very Happy
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Feliks
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My propose new
Differential Gear. I'ts first design.



Without any cogged gear, and if we will employ oiled lubrication solid ball bearing (closed), then work is possible without oil oiling .Polyurethane HD belt.
I am some, that such will work without that noises differential . Wink

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Feliks
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why I don't like spring:
Yes, discus about advantages and disadvantages of spring a re start
Some video, what spring of poped can make : Shocked

http://www.engr.colostate.edu/high_speed_video/mechanisms/MERC_valve_spring_close-up_1000vs6000rpm_3000fps.wmv

http://www.engr.colostate.edu/high_speed_video/mechanisms/MERC_valve_spring_tests_coils_removed_3500-6000rpm_1000fps.wmv

http://www.engr.colostate.edu/high_speed_video/mechanisms/MERC_valve_spring_tests_1000-6000rpm_1000fps.wmv

I thik, so pistons valve , and rod eliminate this "play sprig".
Mass too is better solutions.

Regards Andrew Very Happy
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Feliks
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farthest development at one pivot stand differential animations, but this time about 180 degrees removed rod. Permutation is possible about 90 degrees definitely too.My be It's help if torque will not have a linear relationship But which setup will be better, as yet, I do not know.
To develop simile Torsen torque biasing and traction management too.




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Feliks
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You see this animations?




Andrew Smile
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Feliks
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know last time my distaste for transmission cogged ??
Visit Ricardo Company - http://www.ricardo.com/engineeringservices/newEnergy.aspx?page=windturbinegearboxengineering I see many problem with it.

My solve: Wind motion my oscillating dynamo packs, without any cogged transmission:




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Feliks
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But if you no like oscillating dynamo , I have my proposes without this:
Name Beam Dynamo.




















Such type of pump has been born for too, that produce electric current from marine waves can .
Under-sea fields with energy?


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Feliks
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A nice post-application for oil-pump after the derricks will be completely dried up ! Very Happy

And then, it will be possible to buy all for symbolic dollar it. Smile


In Beam Dynamo we can change input data using set off pulles.

This pull my story:You know last time my distaste for transmission cogged ??





First principle pulles:




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Feliks
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know , if dreams me diesel helicopter?



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teamidris
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did wonder if sending power to the sea bed could be done with a single pressure hose full of sea water. We use compressed air in air, as no return is needed. Same goes for sea water hydraulics in the sea. Then stick a ceramic bodied motor on the end of the line. My apologies if this is a largly adopted current technology. Shocked

I've been looking at stirling engines for heat recovery. Its been very interesting.
It is used in America for generating electricity. A 30 foot wide parabolic mirror focuses on the hot end of the stirling engine, which has a linear generator rather than the usual rotary. Neat!

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