Leaky rear half shaft oil seal AND spline wear

[:)]

Here is a clue as to what the problem is:

Oil was escaping out of the dust cover, not much but enough to notice.

So off with the wheel and brake calliper:


Then off with the hub:


To allow access to the stub axle. The oil seal is fitted at the back of the stub axle, so it as to come off to inspect/change the seal. I see that the seal lip is worn and needs replacing, so that confirms the problem.

Now the reason for this thread ...
Which way do you fit the half shaft oil seal in the stub axle? The workshop manual says:

[Ray_Jnr]

because they were changed before by someone else who couldnt remember which way the old ones came out?

[terence]

Mine said diff side @ or similar to indicate which way round they went ..

Ive used the logic that the lip needs to be outermost towards stub axle, seems to work for me, no leaks.....

sods law dictates that if theres a wronmg way to do it?

[:)]

Yes that is the obvious answer, but I'm pretty sure I'm the first one in there. The reason I think this is because it was in a uniformly corroded state a couple of years ago when I went in there to replace the brakes, the sort of thing you would expect after 10 years and 150k miles.

I should have changed the seal at that time, but I had been supplied with the wrong one (90axle?), so I didn't bother. If it was changed before it must have been many years ago but I thought the salisbury axle was supposed to have a reputation for being robust, so it would seem strange for someone to be in there early in its life.

Has anyone else done this seal? If so, do you remember which way round the original was? I'm really just curious, maybe there is a reason for it.
--
Tim.

[absquatulation]

Many years ago I worked as a supplier to the automotive manufacturers, and it wouldn't surprise me that they had fitted it the wrong way round.

God, when I think of the things we did in supplying parts to Ford.... If you had a Mondeo and the lower radiator hose failed, then I know why..... and it was my fault.....

[:)]

[mmgemini]

Fist thing...
AFAIK only Land Rover fit those seals. Can anybody confirm or deny that.

Certainly when I was working with Salisbuery axles on a daily basis they weren't fitted.

When did Land Rover first fit them ?? When they changed to the Defender or earlier.

I damage mine so they don't work. You see I like to know my bearings and my halfshaft end splines are lubricated. The splines do not get lubricasted with the seals fitted leading the rust and fretting at the drive flange, with eventually loss of drive. If fact I fill, well part fill, the end caps with EP90 at each service.

Some end caps are better than others, I lost two on my first trip. One on my second trip, actually the same one twice. Not had a problem since.

A thought.
The aren't fitted that way round to stop water getting into the diff ?

[LandyAndy™]

[:)]

For information/discussion:


1. Axle casing
2. Ventilation pipe
3. Axle shaft
4. Wheel studs and hub
5. Wheel bearing stub axle
6. Wheel bearings
7. Inner hub seal
8. Outer hub/axle shaft seal
9. Hub lock plate, thrust washer and nuts
10. Brake disc
11. Drive flange
12. Drive shaft circlip
13. Dust cap

As drawn the seal (8) is in the way I have just fitted it - spring facing the oily bits.

More generally, I'm not too happy with the seal arrangement. Half shaft wear is a real problem, I've checked the offside (short) shaft and it is showing some signs of wear after only 20,000 miles. It was greased but it doesn't seem to have done much good. The "oil lubricated" nearside one is better, so it looks like Mike's idea of damaging the seal might work. I guess the seal must be installed otherwise too much oil would flood past and the whole hub would fill and I don't think the inner hub seal (7) would cope.

I guess one engineering solution would be to remake the drive-flange (11) so that it includes a seal against the bearing locknut then ensure the dust cover is oil tight and remove the outer hub/axle shaft seal (7). This would allow the whole half shaft to be splashed in oil, but does apply a small torque to the locknut - not good practice.

Another solution might be to weld the half shaft to the drive flange, like the Disco version. So that leads me to another question:

Is the drive flange cast steel and easily weldable? Has anyone tried it? Does it have any negative implications? Will the half-shaft be weakened significantly?
--
Tim.

[LandyAndy™]

The half shaft on the salisbury is a semi-floating shaft, similar to the series/early 90 set up. As you say Tim, later 90/Defender and Disco have the combined Drive member/half shaft arrangement, which is an altogether better set up. Assuming the drive flange bolts are same centers, could you not just pop in a set of later Disco/Defender half shafts? May need to check that the diff end will tally up though.

I'm suprised that you are suffering wear already, but is this a conseqence of putting a new shaft against worn drive flange? I'm assuming that you have replaced the shafts, 20k ago, and that's what you are basing the wear on. If not, did you actually measure the wear 20k ago or are you just being subjective?

[:)]

I haven't got a Disco combined drive member&shaft to hand but as far as I can recall it has a smaller diameter shaft and spline at the diff end so is not interchangeable with the salisbury axle shafts.

I changed both half shaft and drive flanges 20k miles ago. The wear now is very small (nothing to worry about) but it is noticeable. It is possible to see the start of wear ridges in the half shaft splines and there is a few degrees of play between half-shaft and drive flange, whereas when fitted none was detectable.
--
Tim.

[mmgemini]

[LandyAndy™]

[:)]

[LandyAndy™]

Are those photos of the old shaft and flange? Look new to me.Plenty of life left.

[terence]

I agree change them when there is excessive slap in the transmission otherwise carry spares on a long trip just in case , theres plenty of life left in them yet.


As for not waering the diff end, they tend to twist and snap off....... annoying