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Bam Bars (to stop axle twist) info archive?
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teamtom
Articulating


Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Odometer: 851
Location: East Sussex



PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:30 pm    Post subject: Bam Bars (to stop axle twist) info archive? Reply with quote

Hi all, the main Idea of me posting this thread is not to be annoying and ask about bam bars, but If we could all post pics and ideas of our bam bars we have made and get Nat to stick this thread in the INFO ARCHIVE to try and prevent the question being asked over and over again.

So guys, Lets see you bam bars. (to stop axle Twist)

Tom

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Diesel Destroyer
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote





None of the above done by me.. just pics Ive taken/ stolen off others ready for when I make mine Laughing

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Andy B
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Joined: 09 Apr 2004
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Location: Wirral, NW


1992 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

billavista anti wrap bar
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jeremy
Just got MTs


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of mine.
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teamtom
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Joined: 25 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toe cutters bam bar, Very Happy




also Elzuk Bam bar Very Happy


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mitchy1
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Joined: 22 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone else done this with pics ?
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CiaranFox09
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine takes the abuse of 16v and 4.9:1 transfer no probs made a huge diffrence way more traction at the back now and no axle hop like i used to get.


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mike harris
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1992 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't need one.

Mike

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tomazuki
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

agree with mike harris
. after all the stick everyone gave him last time about needing one i never needed one for mine and that had a td in it. i bought one and it just sat on a shelf springs where the same as when i bought them.

dont know about standard sammy springs tho
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mike harris
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Joined: 06 Oct 2009
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1992 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

point proven.

but to further justfy......

my nissan navara..... rear spoa...... no silly bam bar...

toyota hilux......rear spoa...... no silly bam bar...

ford ranger ect the list goes on and on.....with 4x4's WHICH DONT HAVE BAM BARS!!!!

so your suzuki certainly doesnt need one as it wont have half the power of any of them !

the only reason you would use a bambar is if your spings are not man enough, or you dont have bump stops which allows the sping to bend too mucha and bends and then destorts the spring.

awner is, put uprated springs on it, very short stuby spoa saddles, and bump stops that hit before the sping is completely flat or bending the wrong way.

Very Happy

mike

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CiaranFox09
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Joined: 09 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bam bars are not silly when u combine more power and lower gearing than suzuki ever intended and then go and mount the springs over the axle on which there is more leverage on the springs and combine that with bigger tyres something will give resulting in wheel hop or severe wrap causing the prop to bind.

I drove mine for ages standard 1.3 and i would get pretty bad wrap going up hills with the anti wrap bar i have alot more traction and can dump the clutch with out a worry.

A big difference between a spoa zook and a navara or a hilux is that they have a lot of time and money put into developing there suspension and they use spring with overload leaves and anti wrap leaves .

Oh and i think that longer preches would be better to stop wrap than short stubby ones.

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mike harris
Articulating


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1992 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Longer perches reduce flex,

And mine has 5.1 box, 5.125 Diffs and no silly tramp bar,

And a 1.6 16v, it will have no wrap, Paul ruddick never had one? He drives his Suzuki quite hard, never had a bam bar?? He had, 34s spoa 4.1 box and 3.9 Diffs. No wrap.

Mike

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mike1987
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Joined: 11 Jan 2011
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Location: cornwall



PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how would longer perches reduce flex?
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mike harris
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Joined: 06 Oct 2009
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1992 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i dont know rob storr told me it did, i suppose it allows more of the leaf to move?

not sure, he is the man who knowes so i would go on what he says.

sorry if i that came the across the wrong way about anti wrap bars, but i just dont see the point in them.

if you have one and like it and you think it works, fair play, each to there own.

miek

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ScottieJ
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Odometer: 1923
Location: Corsham, The Shire


1987 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike no offence but if you haven't driven your sj with the current set up how do you know you will not have any axle wrap yet? you might not but then again how do you know until its had thrashing offroad?

As Ciaranfox says 4x4s that come from the factory spoa are set up with springs that are designed to be used with spoa, If you look under an old leaf sprung hilux you will see an anti wrap bar on the front axle to stop axle wrap under heavy braking. I know of people who have added rear anti-wrap bars as well who have instantly felt an improvement in how the power is put down.

If you want to run supple springs that will flex well, not H/D stiff springs that break your back with a harsh ride offroad then you will need one!

Longer spring perches do help as the surface of the perch is spread further along the spring, meaning it will take more torque and leverage to 'twist' the springs

It all depends how you want your set up to work at the end of the day.

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Last edited by ScottieJ on Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mike1987
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Joined: 11 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when i was spoa i did not use an anti wrap bar but if i kept it spoa i would of fitted one as when i wanted 2 give it some stick the back axle would hop and i would have to ease off or i would end up breaking it fitting one properly so it still allows the axle to articulate is surely not a bad thing and can only do more good than harm
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mike harris
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Joined: 06 Oct 2009
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Location: BORDON, HAMPSHIRE


1992 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone tell me why Paul never had one then?

Ok, the point I was getting across is that you dot HAVE to have a bam bar, like you said, trucks don't, they have been setup properly,

Set up a Suzuki properly and you Don't need one, like Pauls.

Or was Paul running an imaginary one?

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CiaranFox09
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Joined: 09 Dec 2008
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Location: Charleville Co. Cork Ireland



PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mabey this paul fellow just didnt care if he had wrap or not ?

I dont know this fabled "paul" u speak of (done a search on google but i only got facts about the movie paul staring simon pegg)but he must be quite a guy
but if he didnt need an anti wrap bar one no one does Very Happy

Yeah its just a case of what u want to truck to do or how hard ur going to drive it. And most of the time u will have a bit of wrap even SPUA ones wrap a little bit.

Yeah sure i suppose a lot of people have improperly set up suspension in there zooks but not eveyone here is a "paul" either Very Happy

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mike harris
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1992 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver zook???

Paul ruddick, just had a chat with him, he never had axle wrap, and I have his old setup.

But like I said, fair enough if you have it.

Mine wont have and will work,

Mike

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muddymesser
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 17 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Darrell
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Odometer: 1580
Location: South Oxfordshire. In the doghouse.


1987 Suzuki SJ413

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So which is better, bam bar or no bam bar.






I think it just comes down to how good/tough your springs are.
Bit more info here - http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/susp/axlewrap/
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Tim Pink
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Joined: 20 Dec 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Longer perches reduce flex"
True in one sense, longer perches reduce the effective length of the spring increasing its rate thus reducing travel for a given load. Assuming that you increase the load to flex the spring the same you will increase the stress within the spring possibly past its failure point

"Longer spring perches do help as the surface of the perch is spread further along the spring, meaning it will take more torque and leverage to 'twist' the springs"

Separating cause and effect is difficult with this statement, If a short perch has no movement between it and the spring then the only effect of a longer perch is to increase the spring rate as detailed above.

I ran superflexy low rate springs on the racer with 3" perches to reduce the dead zone in the springs. I had a tuned 16v and had no axle tramp even when side stepping the clutch at 3500 rpm. (I used this as a startline technique for a couple of races, in the end I decided it was just too hard on the driveline for the gains)
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silver zuk
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Joined: 10 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CiaranFox09 wrote:
Mabey this paul fellow just didnt care if he had wrap or not ?

I dont know this fabled "paul" u speak of (done a search on google but i only got facts about the movie paul staring simon pegg)but he must be quite a guy
but if he didnt need an anti wrap bar one no one does Very Happy

Yeah its just a case of what u want to truck to do or how hard ur going to drive it. And most of the time u will have a bit of wrap even SPUA ones wrap a little bit.

Yeah sure i suppose a lot of people have improperly set up suspension in there zooks but not eveyone here is a "paul" either Very Happy

i havent posted on this thread and would prefer if you didnt mock me about some thing i havent posted Mad
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CiaranFox09
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apologies i was only teasing no offence intended Smile To be fair i had no idea who u were or even if you were on this
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.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

play nice or the thread gets pulled
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silver zuk
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

. wrote:
play nice or the thread gets pulled


thats fine with me pull the thread there just being twats
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rockwatt
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bam bar is certainly beneficial on a lifted vehicle be it spring over or under due to the extra curvature in the springs that encourage axle wrap. The extra bend in the springs give wrap a head start.

Mike when I removed paul's (or should I say lord Paul pmsl) springs I found a broken leaf ! Maybe a bam bar would have aided the longevity of the spring pack.

And yes longer/taller perches do decrease flex ! The further the axle moves away from the springs the leverage the axle has over the springs decreases and reduces flex. And really high perches will bind the springs in the sideways plane.



That should kill this thread off Twisted Evil

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silver zuk
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol at richard
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silver zuk
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rockwatt wrote:
A bam bar is certainly beneficial on a lifted vehicle be it spring over or under due to the extra curvature in the springs that encourage axle wrap. The extra bend in the springs give wrap a head start.

Mike when I removed paul's (or should I say lord Paul pmsl) springs I found a broken leaf ! Maybe a bam bar would have aided the longevity of the spring pack.

And yes longer/taller perches do decrease flex ! The further the axle moves away from the springs the leverage the axle has over the springs decreases and reduces flex. And really high perches will bind the springs in the sideways plane.
should kill this thread off Twisted Evil


rich the broken leaf was from a front spring Rolling Eyes
thats becose i ran dodgy d-flex shackles lol Laughing
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mike harris
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1992 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not arguing with what you say rich !

My point was you don't have to run a bam bar.

But this has got a bit out of hand !

Mike

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