*edited* pug diesel gearbox and engine mounting

[jon.g1]

well this thread has changed a lot, originally i started it to find out more information on the gearbox options available to me to fit a Peugeot diesel engine into my Vitara.

i had a lot of very help full response , and was even pointed in the direction of a commercial that was been broken (thanks goes to Matt C for that) and have since purchased the whole gearbox.

it has also come to light that the bell housing from the commercial will fit a standard petrol box, so those wishing to go down the route of fitting a pug engine in there vit, this makes a simple option.

i have also purchased the Suzuki made drivers side mounting plate (pic's lower down), but unfortunately Suzuki don't list a passenger side mounting although the helpful guy (Dave) at my local dealers (Tracks Taunton) has been trying to chase up there technical support to see if there is a mount available, and if found i will post more info.

I'm now at the stage where i have some time off of work so will be removing my old engine, and test fitting a diesel block. as of yet I'm unsure if i will encounter clearance issues with the sump and front diff, i expect if i do i will prob cost up a sump from Suzuki, I'm trying to stick to standard parts to minimize any problems.

i hope the information below is of help to others and i will update as i find out more as i start my transplant.

Jon

**********Original message below**********


then engine in my vitara is almost dead (cambelt jumped) so I'm going to drive a 306 for the time being, but somehow i don't think it'll go far off road grrr...

i have a pug 1.8TD fro a Citroen bx, ideally I'd like a 1.9TD but for £40 i can't complain...

i know theres all ready various different posts but trying to gather all together in one post, pics would preferably be nice

WOLLYGOZULKI i know u have ur's in pieces any chance of some pics of the LDV box, did u every look at the possibility of using the LDV bell housing

what about getting the bell housing welded up, does anyone know if this is a good idea, or where i could get it done?? costs??

what about a fish plate??, i noticed that the input shaft on the vit is shorter, can this be extended??, is it safe??

any other ideas would be muchly appreciated

and as always pictures very much welcome

gotta get a move on getting the engine into my vit, I'm having mud withdrawal symptoms!!

i have a spare 1.9na D block to test fit with then once it's ready I'll take the engine out of my 306 n into the vitara

i know the simplest way is to buy the pug bell housing from Suzuki but £180 is something I'd rather not part with...

cheers, Jon[/b]

[jon.g1]

here we go



also TD clutch plate is 215mm, can pug clutch be used, and what size is vit plate?, can't vit plate be used with pug housing

[cynic-al]

dont forget that on a vit the gearbox and transfer box are one piece, so if youu don't use the vitara gearbox you will also have to fit a transfer box off something else

[jon.g1]

yea, ideally i'd like to use the vit box, and poss at a later date, dual box it. so mainly after ideas of how to utilize the vit box

[Wollys World :)]

Hi Jon,

Heres some pic`s i just got for you kida,

ldv pilot 200 G box using th eldv bellhousing





this is where the stick came through, about 3-4 inch`s back.


If you use the ldv G box then the ldv clutch will be needed as the input shaft is splined different form the pug.

What i used

405 1.9TD engine
ldv pilot 200 G box with bellhousing
ldv clutch complete kit
either flywheel
either starter motor
410 T box
ldv engine mount brackets, nice and big
Dont forget the hydraulic clutch cylinder needs to be fitted some where, i found a n easy way just gives a heavy clutch, dont notice once you get used to it.

Some folk dont like the LDV G box but at around £100 it aint bad and does the job well, dont have any complaints realy about it, it is low geared but the set up off road is brill, and on road i can do 60mph all day and been to 70pmh but reving its backside off.

If you want more pics let me know kida

[suzukishrek]

Three other options that I know of:

1) Rhino Ray does a converted 413 gearbox to mate with a Pug engine. Not heard good reports about this, it's not cheap and uses the 413 clutch!
2) FSO Caro box (fitted to other vehicles too) - have a word with Brian Evans as he has this in his Sammy. They are rare now but cheap when they crop up.
3) Suzuki do a bellhousing that mates a Pug engine to a Vit gearbox and I think it's about £180. Don't forget the rear output from a Vit box is centred and so is the rear diff, but you could put an SJ transfer box behind the Vit box which would offset both axles (chop off the front Vit output as it gets in the way) and give you dual T-cases. I'm part way through doing this and if I were to do it again, I'd lengthen the wheelbase rather than shortening the Vit box!

All the above assumes a 1.9 Pug lump so I don't know that it applies to the 1.8 - if they are the same gearbox bolt pattern then should be good to go.

[jon.g1]

cheers for the input guys

wolly, does the LDV bell housing separate?? I've spotted an LDV in a local scrappy, got to wait till later in the week till there open to find out if it has the pug engine.

ideally I'd like to keep my box, as would love to go dual transfer, but at the moment will be happy just to have my vit back off road

i don't think there would be much point going down the 413 box route, thanx for the suggestions thou, i just think would be better off chucking money at bell housing from Suzuki.

i don't really want to be reducing my high ratio to much as i also cover 250miles on the road each week.

although i am quite happy plodding along at 60 on the motorway keeps the noise down, and stops the fuel Gauge moving to quickly

what about alloy welding??, i did see a post where some one had got a vit with the conversion and some one had welded a new faceplate to the bell housing?!?

[jon.g1]

oh yea, the 1.8 and 1.9 blocks are the same, the only difference is the size of the bore.

we've temporary fitted the 1.8TD into the 306 whilst we sort plates/adapters for vit, and it bolted st right up to the 1.9 box with the 1.8 clutch

(note: the 1.8 turbo clutch is larger diameter 215mm then the 1.9 NA)

[Wollys World :)]

The bellhousing does seperate yes
Another bit of useless info but i was told and do believe the G box itself is a rover sd1 box, but not sure about the gears .

god knows why i just told you that, completely useless

[jon.g1]

is the bell housing longer on the LDV box?? then the vit.

i did get told that some of the rovers where also fitted with a pud engine, i would take a guess and say that the rover gearing is probably a tiny bit higher due to the fact it's a car and not a van..

[Wollys World :)]

sorry dont know about that one kida as dont have a vit to go of yet.

[jon.g1]

cool cool, well hopefully I'll get down to the breakers on Thursday and see if the van has the pug engine,

i think I'll prob pick up the box if it is, and then go from there. mod bell housing or use box an SJ transfer... umm...

[kenhutch]

FYI, I measured the assembled 1.9 diesel and LDV box today and found the following (+/- 5mm):
bell-housing length = 185mm
gearbox to centre line of gear stick = 415mm
total from gear stick centreline to bell-housing (engine end) = 600mm

total length from gearstick centre line to crank pulley on engine = 1110mm

One problem I have encountered was that neither the LDV pressure plate or clutch will fit the 1.9D flywheel. I don't know if the turbo diesel has a larger flywheel. I'll probably get a machine shop to drill and tap the old flywheel to suit the LDV pressure plate and clutch as its probably easier than trying to get another flywheel.

Ken

[jon.g1]

thanx for the information, I'll c if get the chance I'll crawl under my vit 2moro, and measure the standard vit setup.

is your engine your using a turbo, i have plates from both a turbo and a non turbo pud diesel, and the turbo plate is bigger and won't fit a non turbo flywheel, although the flywheels did look interchangeable

[kenhutch]

Jon,

Mine is the naturally aspirated version hence why I had the smaller clutch/pressure plate.
I've added some extra photo's which I hope help.

Ken

[jon.g1]

cheers for the pica's, looking good, have you fitted yours yet??, I've got some spare time over the next couple days so I'll see if i can get to the scrappy and see if the LDV has a pug engine, because I'd like to retain my vit box, i'm going to have a look at the poss of getting a plate welded to the back of the LDV bellhousing to allow it to bolt to the vit box.

does the LDV box have a clutch cable or hydraulic??, i noticed the pressure pipe coming out of the union on the top of the box.

I'm still hunting and keeping my eye's open though for a proper vit/pug bellhousing, would make my life easier...

[Wollys World :)]

Hi kida, LDV clutch hydraulic

[stevieboy118]

Any chance of a closer shot of the passenger side engine mount?

[jon.g1]

i second that, any pic's of how people have made/mounted there passenger side mount to the block would be nice

[kenhutch]

Well I've been busy this weekend making the new front end for the chassis and today I was making the engine mounts so your question is perfectly timed. I haven't even wire brushed the bits after welding!
LH Mount is attached via four M8 bolts. These existing holes in the block were unused so I ran a tap down them to clean them up. When finished these will be lock-tight-ed into place.
The mounts is made from 40mm box and 6mm plate. I intend to use a LR engine mount which is approximately 40mm thick and 80mm in diameter. On the chassis I mounted the plate between two 100mm long sections of box to provide a large enough resting area for the rubber mount.
From the last picture you can see I still have a long way to go!
Hope this helps,
Ken

[stevieboy118]

You utter star

What rubber did you use between the mount and the chassis?

I'm guessing it's a similar unit in the mount on the other side?

[AndyH aka Mad4x4]

[kenhutch]

The rubber engine mount is from a Land Rover chosen simply because that's what I borrowed from SLOSS.
I made a similar mount on the drivers side however as I reused the same bolt holes as Citroen did with their engine/drive shaft bearing mount it was a bit easier and also more substantial as it uses four M10 bolts.
Photo's aren't great however I hope you can understand what I did. Must solve that oil leak!
Ken
p.s. According the the CD workshop manual I bought, the gearbox is an R380 unit which I believe is the more modern Rover box and not the SD1 type.

[wheelspinner]

On a connected note a guy at work has just bought a Tata Loadbeta when i was talking to him found out this had a Pug XUD engine and gearbox could this be used for a conversion????

Regards

Steve

[dunk]

I thought the Tata's used the older Peugeot engines like the one's from a 505 or 504. I could be wrong though

[Steven]

I think you are right TATA uses same engine as old 504 they are a bit on the heavy side.
TATA gearbox is nice and short though ideal for the sj just need to shorten the gear linkage.

[jon.g1]

[jon.g1]

I've edited the original post i put up, to help sum up the contents of this thread, i hope that the information gathered here will be of as much help to others as it is to me.

[Diesel Destroyer]

Nat.. can this post be made a sticky??

[Nathaniel]