new mog owner

[baloo]

hi
well l finally got round to buying a 404, body work is virtually non existent so l have some decisions to make on that later, this is going to be
a strip down to the chassis, shot blast,paint and rebuild type of project, so fairly long term, l am sure l will have lots of questions along the way, which l hope you will be able to help me with, starting with:

the clutch pedal seems to have a rod which is connected to the clutch arm on the bell housing and then on to a hyd cylinder, whats all this about then?

andy

[shaggy]

Howdy fella, well done!!!

We bought an old rust bucket and fixed it up - http://www.foodfight.org.uk/mog/restoindex.shtml

Good luck.

There shouldn't be a hydraulic cylinder - just a lever going backwards to a bar on the bellhousing - which goes inside to a fork which operates the clutch, via the infamous throw out bearing.

you can see most of the gubbins here;



take it easy,

jim

[baloo]

hi jim
there's defiantly a hyd cylinder involved, but it looks like a master cylinder rather than a slave, when you press the clutch pedal the rod pushes the clutch arm backwards and another rod goes into the cylinder, there is a hyd flexi pipe coming out of the cylinder but its been cut off so l have no idea where it went or what it did, it does not look like somebodys adaption as the clutch operating arm is cast with a fitting for the rod to the hyd cylinder
or does the rod from the clutch pedal pull the clutch operating arm forwards in which case the cylinder behind it must be a slave pushing forwards, so where is the master then ?

what engine are you running in yours ? l am looking at making an adapter plate to use a 300tdi ( as l have one out of my disco that rotted away )

cheers andy

[shaggy]

That is weird.

You could ask on the fountain of knowledge that is the mog mailing list (via www.mogmsgexch.com)

We have the 2.2 engine, and have a slightly higher comp head to fit - eventually. The engine suits it very well, and ours is quite light, so it moves OK.

jim

[jollygreen]

[shaggy]

Yeah, light - about 2.8 tonnes, we think. Compared to a radio-box that's nothing. I think even a lot of the military gear is heavy, we don't have that either.

I also don't have a compressor robbing power and adding weight - I think the power that'll rob at high revs is probably worth an MPH or two.

It means I don't pine for more power _too_ much. Be careful of sticking 12.5 tyres on it as well, they look cool, but really rob power.

Have you looked into the specifics of a diesel swap?

jim

[baloo]

hi
which specifics specifically do you refer to with regard to an engine conversion?
perhaps l should have said my unimog purchase consists of a 404 with no engine but more or less complete albeit with terminal tin worm
and also a complete rolling chassis/gearbox but again no engine, so l have to fit an engine of some sort, no doubt if it/they had come with working petrol engines l would have got one working and give it a go, but l think its unlikely l will be going shopping for a petrol engine, so diesel it is l think, besides as all of my offroading is done off the public highway the ability to use red diesel would be use full.
last year l broke up a couple of g wagens and threw a perfectly good 2.8 lt petrol engine in the scrap, so buying another petrol doesn't really appeal to much, however the other had a 5 cyl diesel engine and that still resides under my bench, but l seem to remember it wouldn't pull the skin of a rice pudding, so this isn't my first choice, so hence the 300 tdi is at the front of the list, but not set in stone,
l had a quick measure up today and things don't look to bad, might get away with a flat plate adapter, but there are other things to check yet like sump clearance etc, but so far so good.
anybody else used a different motor perkins etc ?

moving much further ahead do second hand bodies come up for sale as mine is not good ? has any body got experience of fitting a different body,
l found myself looking at a vito van today and running an imaginary tape over it

cheers andy

[jollygreen]

[baloo]

hi
managed to get half a day off work today and as the rolling chassis was still on the trailer thought it would be a good idea to jet wash it down to see what sort of condition it is in, and wow they build em strong don't they
what a chassis big or what, going to enjoy painting this up,
any body got any pics of wheels and tyres, how big can l go ?

andy

[Steveb]

Hi Andy,

I've had a look at one of the other ones to trace that cut flexy pipe and it joins to a 3/16" steel pipe under the floor ,across to passenger footwell to a small m/cyl attached to one of two pedals in passenger footwell. the other pedal is attached to a rod to a large m/cyl on the floor behind the pass. seat....this seems to be something to do with the trailer brakes.
Not much clearer really..any other moggers know anything about these additional hydraulic features?


Cheers

Steveb

[shaggy]

Could it be dual controls????

As for the engine.....the engine is suspended from, rather than bolted to the chassis. If you look near where the torque tubes meet, there is a tube bolted over one of the chassis cross members. This is where the axles push and pull against the chassis.

The gearbox transmits the force, and the engine is bolted to it. Those diagonal braces from gearbox to engine help with this. The engine is then suspended from two of the same bushings used in the panhard rods. This allows the chassis to flex around the engine/gearbox without stressing it.

when you change the engine you have to think about

- height of the engine
- sump, as the engine is tilted backwards and sideways
- clutch, can be a nightmare
- revs - you don't want to go much above the stock 4800
- exhaust routing
- length of the engine - with a plate
- modifying the hell out of the cab.

I wonder if you should aim to find a mog engine? It would make your life easier, much easier!

jim

[Mr Tyre]

Front and/or rear PTO's maybe?

[baloo]

hi Mr Tyre
are you saying that the extra control for the clutch could be used when engaging/disengaging the pto, would seem to be a possibility but it would need to be in reach of the driver otherwise you couldn't use the pto unless you had a passenger on board,

steveb
thank you for looking, will give you a call and come over and see you soon to have a poke about the others now that l am getting familiar with them

cheers andy

[jollygreen]

[baloo]

hi shaggy
dual controls, you may be spot on there, it used to be a double cab, and whilst reading up on the unimog l found a reference to double cabs in the army being used for driver training, so it would make sense that the driving instructor in the passenger seat would have his own brake and clutch pedals, much as driving school cars do now.
with regard to my proposed engine conversion, nothing is set in stone and l may well opt for the original engine ( but would still have to find one )
l take on board your points, but feel it is probably worth the effort, l already have a perfectly good 300 tdi engine, so l don't have to spend there, l spent many years as a welder fabricator so don't see the actual work as hard, in fact its the engineering l enjoy,
there appears to be room to spare with regard to lenght, although at this time l am considering machining a couple of inches of the front of the mog bell housing to bring the first motion shaft into the clutch and back of the crank properly, so the finished length may be less than stock
l am fairly sure l can replicate the engine mounting system of the original
so as not to inhibit frame flex
as for sheet metal conflicts with the cab l don't actually have a usable cab at the moment, and am unsure what l am going to do in this department
l am considering making one from scratch based on a standard 404 rag top cab, might even take a fiberglass mold of an existing mog front so l can make it look the same but be custom built inside
but l haven't really come to any decision on this, l might just use a cab of another vehicle altogether, Nissan cab star perhaps?
but for the time being l am going to concentrate on getting the rolling chassis finished and drivable as it is
l sure l will have some more questions for you all soon

andy

[baloo]

hi jollygreen
for give my ignorance on all things Mercedes, but what is a m130 engine and what model of merc is it fitted in, l might investigate this route
cheers andy

[jollygreen]

[baloo]

hi iain
thanks for that, l will go and pop my head under a few Mercedes bonnets before making any decisions

how do the brakes work on a mog?, are they just standard hydraulic like a landrover or is there more involved?

thanks andy

[shaggy]

Hi Andy,

The brakes vary a lot between them. Ours (Belgian?) has single circuit, non assisted drums. They do work.

German ones always had compressed air assist single circuit hydraulic brakes.

the civilian 404.0 often had vacuum assisted brakes, possibly even dual circuit.

From what I can see of yours, it is like ours.

have a look!

jim

[baloo]

hi again
another question for you, does anyone not what the pcd is, or is there any other wheels that fit the mog stud patten, is it possible to go down to a 16" rim or will the drums stop you from mounting the wheel
thanks guys

andy

[mike97]

Hi Guys, I can confirm the hyd cyl on the clutch linkage is for dual controls, you may find some extra brake valves on the chassis as a dual brakes were also fitted. Seems like most double cabs were used for driver training, mine had those extra bits fitted however i have now removed the cylinders as they were seized solid. Good luck with the project

cheers mike

[The Original Donk]

Yep, the genuine double cabs had dual controls.

The cylinders that have seized may be of use so dont sling them, soak them in a diesel bath, and they should free up.

They only originally made 83 of the genuine double cabs with dual controls, so you could have some rare parts there.

[The Original Donk]

16" land rover 101 rims fit on the drums...just. Very tight fit.

Some agricultural implement rims fit as well.

Military vehicles of similar size also have the same PCD as to ease maintainence in battlefield situations where spare wheels could be plentiful across a wide range of vehicles.

[jollygreen]

Straight forward supplies will make you wheels of any size, with any offset. And with beadlocks too if you want em. Cost you though...

I've got a spare spare if you see what I mean. And I know somebody who's breaking my old mog which has 4 reasonable wheels on it you want em.

Cheers
iain

[baloo]

hi
the original donk and mike97
thank you for confirming that, so it was dual controls then, l will remove the bits l don't want and put them under my bench along with all the other things l have forgotten about

jollygreen
l have had a look at the sfs site and sure enough they do make make wheels to your requirements but the is no price and that always puts me off,
l can see a couple of ways of converting to different wheels, looking at the pic on shaggy's site of a wheel hub, it looks like there is enough meat/space to re drill to a different stud patten, but that means l have to remove the hubs to re drill,
l could make some spacer/adapters to bolt on the hub, but l have never been a fan of pushing the wheels further out than they are supposed to be,
but as this is only a toy and probably wont be driven on the road,the mileage is going to be minimal so the bearings might survive ok

or as l have these wheels in the garage with nothing to bolt them to, could just re drill these at the new pcd, which according to a quick check with a tape this afternoon would be 200mm ?
at least this way the mog stays stock and l can use my wheels either on a toyota or the mog, assuming they fit over the brake drums that is.

are the original drum brakes up to the job ?, they look pretty big so l would imagine they work ok ? or do l need a disc conversion,
given that l am not a lover of mud or slurry and my offroading will consist of trying to climb over or up things, the potential for the drums to fill with goop will be small, hopefully

cheers
andy

[shaggy]

When properly adjusted, the drums are very good. Relatively precise, good feel, and they will easily lock the wheels on tarmac at a reasonable speed. Mine finally stops straight, after far too much time salvaging old cylinders that were really past, oh, and all the hub oil!

They do work with crap in them as well, they're so f**king big, they could hardly not do! Maybe if you're full up at 5 ton, it would be different, but don't worry about it. The discs look dear and often jerry-rigged, and for many £$£$£

I realise I'm turning into some kind of "keep it stock" vigilante - but do try a set of 10.5 R20's on the stock rims. The gearing, clearances, brakes and CoG are all made round it.

Also, stock is fast - get that baby going for spring next year!

jim

[baloo]

been and had a good look at the mog today, don't think 16" wheels are going to look right, so perhaps l will stay with 20" after all as shaggy says it was designed around them, it just that they look a little plain, maybe l could cut the centre out and fit new with more offset and detail,

jollygreen
where in the country is your old mog being broken , l might be interested in another set of wheels depending where they are

shaggy
l am glad you think drums are up to the job as that was the way l was heading, the disk kit does look expensive and jerry rigged doesn't it
did you put a seal kit in the brake master cylinder, if so where did you obtain it
what month are you holding mogstock, give me a month to aim at

cheers andy

[shaggy]

We got a rebuild kit from either Andy in belgium (VK cars) or Manfred at Westfield.

Make sure it's well honed, but not _too_ well honed!

Mogstock? I'm thinking late april / early may.

jim

[jollygreen]

[baloo]

hi iain
l have just looked on a map to see how far up Aberdeen is
l was up in Edinburgh a couple of weeks ago and l thought l was going to fall off the top of the country, how wrong l was Berlin looks closer to me, so l think l better pass on those
thanks
andy