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The best off roader is...
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DavidDennison
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:38 pm    Post subject: The best off roader is... Reply with quote

Which is the best, the Pinzgauer or the Unimog?
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shaggy
Articulating


Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Odometer: 560
Location: Manchester, UK


1961 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 404 Doka

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mog.

Pinz is more civilised.

jim "wants a Pinz Camper _and_ a 404"
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minimog
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing i'll give you a clue
WHAT FORUM HAVE YOU POSTED THIS QUESTION ON
DONT you think us mog owner are going to be a bit bias
no realy it all comes down to what YOU what it for and how much money you want to spend
a bad driver can make a pinz/mog look bad
but if you learn to drive it it will pritymuch get you any where you want to go Wink

__________________________________
WHAT YOUR ASKED WHEN YOU OWN A MOG
"why have you put a merc star on that"
UNIMOG MOTTO
"IF IT CARNT BE FIXED WITH A BIG HAMMER"
IT MUST BE AN ELECTRICAL FAULT"
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moggs
Just got MTs


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2007 Mercedes-Benz s404.1

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:10 am    Post subject: pinz or mog ? Reply with quote

erm wot section have yu posted on ????????
pinz things are good yes, as standard they are nice piece of kit, problem being though even though they have plenty groung clearance unloaded, when loaded due to the susspension design they squat and lose that clearance, unlike a mog which doesnt,
and besides i pulled pinzguars out of boggs which i had just driven through
they all have pro's and con's ,
individual choice down to the person, but this is a mogg section though
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isle_of_man
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the tgb/volvo 303 would also be a contender in my opinion.








peter henry

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DavidDennison
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted my question on this Forum because I thought I'd get an honest and worthwhile point of view from you all.

I am in the process of wanting to purchase one or the other and I find myself in need of good, honest and sensible argument for each vehicle...(my friends own Land-Rover's and they are just as bias as you all appear to be)

So, I ask you again, what are the pitfalls of both vehicles...that is if you know anyway?

We are intending to use the vehicle as our everyday transport as well as using it for Overland excursions into inhospitable areas. We are both disabled and have no mechanical knowledge so we're both well aware of the potential problems being incurred in everyday use.
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DavidDennison
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh...about using this Forum.....There isn't a Forum for Pinzgauers!
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moggs
Just got MTs


Joined: 23 Nov 2005
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Location: kendal cumbria


2007 Mercedes-Benz s404.1

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:47 pm    Post subject: m Reply with quote

now yu say yu want an all rounder, then theres a different matter,
for all round useability then the pinz wins hands down, but for off roading ability then the mogg wins that one hands down,
yu should have listed iff yu want an off roader or an all rounder,
the unimog U1300L will beat everything in its class, but for everyday useability they are a monster
cost wise then the volvo c303 against the pinz.
the volvo is cheaper but its on axles, and is a lot cheaper than the pinz,
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minimog
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Joined: 25 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry for the bias reply but you asked which was best with no info on what you wanted it for if you want a good allround package then you want somthing you that can be repaired anywhere inthe world and can sorce spares aswell by back country garages
mogs ok known around the world reliable but spare are exspensive if you need any and finding someone who can repair it might be hard
pinz ?
volvo ?
i would choose a landrover (sorry) but they are known in any back country can be repaired by monkeys and spares can be found anywhere

__________________________________
WHAT YOUR ASKED WHEN YOU OWN A MOG
"why have you put a merc star on that"
UNIMOG MOTTO
"IF IT CARNT BE FIXED WITH A BIG HAMMER"
IT MUST BE AN ELECTRICAL FAULT"
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Mr Tyre
Mr Tyre


Joined: 17 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The UK military have used both.The early Pinzgauers had VW engines which weren't up to the job, a military unit in Salisbury had/have still a yard full of them with blown motors which were broken bit by bit to keep others going, the later ones have mercedes motors which seem almost bullet proof.I have seen very few if any x uk military ones for sale perhaps that is something to do with there intial purchase price and how long they need to hold onto them before they will get cast out.As for Unimogs the RAF (and others) used them out in the Falklands looking at the towbar set ups mostly for towing duties, i do know of a few used by the SAS for various 'duties', if they weren't any good they for one wouldn't use them, and also a couple of special bodied types used by different regiments who seem happy with them.The US Army also use both makes of vehicles and also seem happy with them, yet again very few that get released end up over here.If you are looking for value for money, they both offer you that but in different ways.There are various surplus dealers over here perhaps ringing or e mailing them will give you some idea what is available (or not).
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Let Luce
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Joined: 11 Dec 2002
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Location: Derbyshire


1977 Land Rover 101

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seem to remember the early pinz had an air cooled motor. tried to pick one up cheap when we were in The Sudan, the owners had abandoned it with a dead engine. (some) Mogs are a lot bigger than a pinny, but awsome offroad.

You say your planning on some overland excursions into inhospitable areas. Where? as this will have some effect on vehicle choice.

Most of the middle east / north Africa / Australia is Toyota country with spares for a Land Rover for example being difficult to get hold of.

Also, I've heard you pretty much need a forklift to be able to do any major works on a mog due to the very heavy duty nature of their drive train.

Something else to consider is that anything can be got stuck. If you're driving a U1600 and get it stuck, you need something BIG to get it unstuck, yes you can put a big winch on it but what if there's nothing to winch off? or as Dave did at T**ms farm you end up pulling the tree you're winching off over.

You also say you're both disabled, but not how. I'm sure you would have thought about this as you know your own capabilities, but it's a long way up into a mog.

There's a few good books with sections about vehicle choice, Tom Shepherd Vehicle Dependant Expedition Guide and Chris Scotts Sahara over land for example.

Chris

__________________________________
Landrovers; a full time occupation
www.themorgans.info/expedition/index.php
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DavidDennison
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your advice folk....our disabilities are mobility impairments but where there's a will, there's a way of getting into one of these machines...even for us two!

Here's what I do know about Pinzguers...

2225cc air cooled from 1972 till 1985 when VW engines fitted. 1986 till 1989 VW turbo engines fitted. 1990 to present, VW TDi powered.

All Pinzgauers are worth a small fortune...dead one's don't exist! Mercedes powered units are fitted but it's a recent conversion. A new 4x4 Pinzguer is £60,000 and a 6x6 is £75,000. Very advanced and reliable with outstanding build quality despite their age.

and what I know about Unimogs...
Exceptional cross country ability, exceptionally reliabilities and expensive too! Very large...the Overlanders dream!

What I don't know about them both though is this...
What MPG can be expected on tarmac roads?
What MPH can be reasonably achieved cruising?
Realistically, how user friendly are they both?
Which dealers do you recommend?
Do you own one and would you buy another? and if so, why?
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shaggy
Articulating


Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Odometer: 560
Location: Manchester, UK


1961 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 404 Doka

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're thinking long distance, you're thinking diesel mog,

12-15 mpg on road (only a bit less off road), 45 mph on road, 3.5-5 ton unladen.

Figures would be better (by 20%?) for a modern 1300L.

All from a few years reading about others, I have a 404

jim
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norseman
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Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Odometer: 20
Location: Scotland



PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:29 pm    Post subject: Which is best? Unimog - Pinz - Volvo C3 or other Reply with quote

Hi Guys and David Dennison in particular,

I have just read this posting whilst surfing so thought I would add a post.

There is no simple answer to this question because it is largely one of horses for courses. Unimogs are mostly large and in the case of U5000 around 13 tins GVW and even more in the case of the 2450L 6x6 though there are many smaller mogs. (We know nothing of your disabilities but you are talking about machines that are potentially a real handful to operate etc)

As an every day transport they are almost prohibitively expensive to run, most Unimogs have a lot of engineering complexity and the newest ones are an electronic nightmare which means that the places where you can get work done on them are few and far between.

Professionally owned Unimogs are often engaged in work where nothing else will do (they are hugely adaptable to a great variety of functions). Privately owned mogs are also in use serving a large variety of functions, they can be a lot of fun to own and use, they will get you to places that you would hardly believe possible.

I bought a 1996 1450L DoKa last year and am in the process of adapting it to a long range camper for expedition type travelling you can see a few pics (more to follow) by following this link
http://www.mogmsgexch.com/album_personal.php?user_id=63

You should probably look around at the many forums for different 4x4s and first figure out why you want/need one. If you fiinish up buying a mog then happy mogging if you buy something else be happy and good luck.

best regards from David Gudmunsen
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G Wizz
Just got MTs


Joined: 13 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:51 pm    Post subject: Re: pinz or mog ? Reply with quote

moggs wrote:
erm wot section have yu posted on ????????
pinz things are good yes, as standard they are nice piece of kit, problem being though even though they have plenty groung clearance unloaded, when loaded due to the susspension design they squat and lose that clearance, unlike a mog which doesnt,
and besides i pulled pinzguars out of boggs which i had just driven through
they all have pro's and con's ,
individual choice down to the person, but this is a mogg section though


This is "Mercedes and unimog" section, mercedes make G Wagens, which are made in graz at the styer Puch factory, Pinz's were made at the same factory alongside G wagens, so he could be forgiven for posting here.

Having driven a 6 wheeled pinzy with auto box I was hooked, pinzys are a nice size to go laning in too, mogs can be a bit restrictive and highway speeds maybe an issue.
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EX-INF
Just got MTs


Joined: 27 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The wiz has a good point , I use a G wagon for my trips laning and camping in Wales ,
In the past i have used Volvo C303s a 6x6 and a 4x4 both very good unusual motors off road , but for the UK where all the lanes are landrover size driving the bigger motors C303 or a unimog down some of the lanes is very wrong to wide to tall.... but fun Embarassed ...

It depends i suppose on your usage if its fun days , no problem , but if its UK laning ,,maybe

Anyway back to Pinzgauer , fantastic off road , unusual , a 6x6 isant much bigger than a 110 , I was offered a mint 6x6 direct from Switzerland for £3500 that's a lot of motor for your money .

Ex-Inf
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norseman
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Joined: 09 Aug 2007
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Location: Scotland



PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:48 am    Post subject: Value for money Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

Ex-INF wrote that he was offered an ex Swiss Pinz for £3500 which I agree gives a lot of machinery for your money, but don't forget that you are also buying 20 - 40 years of accumulated use/abuse/neglect etc.

My current project is conversion of a 1996 Unimog 1450L DoKa (Euro2 engined) to a long range expedition prepared camper. The initial purchase price was ?20,000 ex Germany, it was my good fortune to discover that the machine had been recently re engined with a factory new (not recon) engine. However the point of this post is to say that currently the rebuild and up spec work has cost several times the purchase price and my consolation is that I have currently saved over £40,000 on the other option which was buying a brand new Unimog 3000 and even more had I purchased a new 4000 or 5000.

Final analysis is that although there are bargains to be had you mostly get what you pay for. SO it behoves you to know just what you are buying in to. Also to re iterate the question 'Why are you buying it?'

best regards from David Gudmunsen
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Nathaniel
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Joined: 13 May 2003
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1979 Suzuki LJ

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do know that quite a few former pinni owners are switching to Volvo C303's, they're better apparently....
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If You Open Your Mind Too Much Your Brain Will Fall Out
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DavidDennison
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm wanting something that can be used around the UK easily.
It has to be able to be slept in occasionally rather then to be used like that of a home!
Age doesn't cut it for me as I am a former classic car nut anyway...what matter's is condition, not age!
I am no mechanic so it'd need servicing somewhere but where?
So, we're both disabled....that's all! We're not dead yet and whilst we're able to breath...we thought we'd live it up a while before we both kick the bucket!
The 4x4 is the same size as the 90 Landie whereas the 6x6 is the size of a 110....small and able Yes....but are there any other pit falls? No idea!
Unimogs are brill but I thing Pinzgauers are as well.

Good point of yours G-Wizz. By the way, the Pinzgauers I'm considering have only 33000 miles on their clocks from new.....ex reserve stock!
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isle_of_man
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Joined: 15 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i purchased this last year from sweden for 45000skr approximately £3500gbp and it has only covered 2000 miles.





you get a lot of tgb/volvo for your money, some parts are the same as land rover.



peter henry

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norseman
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:53 am    Post subject: Sales and service etc Reply with quote

Hi there David,

You have asked the question about servicing of either Mogs or Pinz.

You will find that outside of the companies that sell these vehicles there are a band of self employed mechanicians who can provide service. Much depends on where you live though. I know a few guys who work on Mogs and will travel too.

In considering the Pinz, yes you can buy them cheaply enough but it looks as though you want something that is road ready - you might like to look at these guys http://www.c-u-v.co.uk/index.asp

best regards from David Gudmunsen
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Steveb
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, I'd consider volvo c303/c306 for what you want they are versatile but bigger than a 130 LR so if its mainly greenlaning that will colour your choice. There is an exceptionally well kitted c306 6x6 motorcamper on *bay at the mo too....no connection to me just food for thought

Steveb
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ningram
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David
have you seen this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/mercedes-Unimog-long-range-diesel-motor-home_W0QQitemZ330154829194QQihZ014QQcategoryZ14256QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Nick
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G Wizz
Just got MTs


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Tyre wrote:
The UK military have used both.The early Pinzgauers had VW engines which weren't up to the job, a military unit in Salisbury had/have still a yard full of them with blown motors which were broken bit by bit to keep others going, the later ones have mercedes motors which seem almost bullet proof.I have seen very few if any x uk military ones for sale perhaps that is something to do with there intial purchase price and how long they need to hold onto them before they will get cast out.As for Unimogs the RAF (and others) used them out in the Falklands looking at the towbar set ups mostly for towing duties, i do know of a few used by the SAS for various 'duties', if they weren't any good they for one wouldn't use them, and also a couple of special bodied types used by different regiments who seem happy with them.The US Army also use both makes of vehicles and also seem happy with them, yet again very few that get released end up over here.If you are looking for value for money, they both offer you that but in different ways.There are various surplus dealers over here perhaps ringing or e mailing them will give you some idea what is available (or not).


not correct, the early UK military Pinzy had the Lt 35 6 cylinder non turbo engine, the later have the 5 cylinder VW turbo engine mated to an auto box, the merc sprinter engine would not physically fit, otherwise they would have used it, the early VW 6 pot engine was under powered and prone to timing belt snapping. And of course prior to all of the above it had Styers own petrol engine.
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DavidDennison
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One company over here are fitting a Mercedes 5 cylinder diesel engines that develop a measly 98HP...do any of you folk know anything about this unit?
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norseman
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Joined: 09 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:20 am    Post subject: 98 HP ¿¿¿ Reply with quote

David,

You commented "a measly 98 HP"!

Power output is of far less significance in vehicles such as Unimog, Pinz and Volvo 303 et al. These vehicles are not built for formula 1 racing but for reliably traveling on and more importantly off road where a suitable range of gear ratios and plenty of 'grunt' low speed torque and good traction are of far more value.

My humble 170 HP Unimog could be rated to haul at 22 tons GTW and these vehicles whilst not quick will almost climb the side of a house.

Certainly you can re engine all of these vehicles with more HP and force them to go faster - do this off road and you will soon trash your vehicle and perhaps yourself into the bargain.

On the other hand if you are looking for 'big time' off road sport/fun perhaps you should consider buying a Paris - Dakar 4 x 4 truck like the DAF, Tatra, Kamaz or some such with 1500 - 2500 HP available.

best regards from David Gudmunsen Twisted Evil
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DavidDennison
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do like the Pinzgauers but what's putting me off them is that they seem to be really quiet rare whereas the Unimogs appear to be more common!

Spares, reliability, how often work has to be done, ease of maintenance, how adaptable the two vehicles can are etc etc etc.......

I'm beginning to think the Unimog has the upper hand for everyday use for us....how easy is it to fit a Tail Lift??? They also appear to be easier to climb in as well although that still remains to be seen.

I've read many good bits of advice on this Forum.....thanks folks.

David
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tacr2man
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be worth alook at Foley specialist vehicles in view of what sort of vehicle you are looking at .
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Tramp
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Joined: 16 May 2007
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1992 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what are you looking at mogs/ pinz's for when there are tatra trucks out there? if you want a rugged/reliable mount with plenty of umph and space for passengers (8x8 if i could afford one!) that are good off road to! you want a tatra
look at the Paris to Dakar rally out of 20 consecutive years they have won 5 times which is no mean feat!

okay in the UK spares might be more of a challenge but because of the EU, everything is much easier now, and if you found a half decent dealer parts could be shipped over pretty cheaply


like i said before if i had a big truck id have a tatra 8x8.....




but it all depends on cash, if you are a bit Short consider a cheap alternative, zil131's come up on eBay and sell for about £1000 and if you are using an importer praga v3s's are quite cheap (ugly and diesel with a low top speed)


Luke

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http://www.suzukiclubuk.co.uk
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norseman
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:01 am    Post subject: If you are going big Reply with quote

If you are going big then you could always consider one of the smaller Urals. These trucks were built for use in Siberia and man you have to see the 'roads' there to believe them.

best regards from David Gudmunsen
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