TD5 or 300TDi

[Tim Pink]

I am replacing my V8 110 CSW with a newer model, should I go for a late (02ish) 300TDi or a TD5. Part of the change will involve a tuning kit as I do not want to loose all of the advantages (read power) of the V8
Please only those with direct experience reply, I have heard the hearsay now I need the facts.

Thanks in advance

Tim

[philc]

Hi Tim,

02 will be a TD5, I think TDi's stopped in 98 because T and V reg are TD5's.

I have a TD5 which I have chipped and I am happy with it, but it doesn't have the power etc. of a V8 (I have a V8 SII Disco ona V plate at work).

I have driven a diesel Disco series 1, and really didn't like the engine, but I think that it was a 200 TDi not a later 300 TDi. Servicing on 200 and 300's is every 6,000 miles, on a TD5 it is every 12,000 miles. Maybe not a problem if you do your own, but a consideration if you use a garage.

The TD5 is smoother, does more mpg I think, and is more powerful in either standard or chipped form, but I can't comment on chipping a 300 TDi. I've done about 55,000 in my TD5 and no problems, most of that since it was chipped. It's no racing car but it is a good solid performer.

The anti stall function works excellently. You put it in first (or any gear at the right speed) and it just drives itself. You can select low first, let the clutch up and take your foot off and it just slowly crawls it's way across or up most things. This didn't work as well until it was chipped and at times it was a little lumpy off road in low gear until it was chipped.

Obviously TD5 is electronic everything and that is my only worry about how robust that all is long term.

Hope this rambling helps - Phil.

[philc]

Tim = in case it isn't immediately clear I'm talking of experience of TDi's and TD5's in Disco's, not Defender. Although I have driven 300 and TD5 Defenders I haven't done enough to really comment. P

[Ricky]

Hi i had 2 300tdi's for 6 years and have had my 99 td5 for 12 months. i do light green laning and regularly go on the beach but mainly these have been used for general day to day road use.i have not felt the need to chip tune my td5 even when towing a large boat its always felt ok for what i need.The only thing i would add to what philc said is i wouldn't go back to a 300 , i never realized how slow and unrefined they were until now

[davedjd]

I love my TD5 and find it's got plenty of go on the fast roads however I've recently had to do expensive repairs due to electronic problems that lead to it being off the road for 3 weeks

At the time I wished I'd gone for the simplicity of a 300...but I'd miss the poke

[Nathaniel]

Buy a Daihatsu, All the power of a LR, none of the problems!!

As I see it the TD5 is a more powerful engine than the tdi, but the 300tdi is regarded as the best engine LR ever made.

The fuel pump is easily turned up (for free) fit a bigger intercooler and you're well on your way to getting some proper power.

TD5 tuning is more expensive, you need to pay somebody to change its electronics.

I'm scared of electronics, they're hard to fix when they go wrong.

Although a mate has a TD5 Defender chipped to 230bhp and its a complete animal!

[dooroy]

I'm on my second Disco Tdi - a 96 ES . The Tdi engine was fitted to the Discos up to 98 - then the Disco 2 with the Td5 engine replaced it .
The ES is very well equipped but they are a bit sluggish on the road . I don't think you can chip them as you can the Td5 - the use of a more efficient intercooler seems to be one way of getting increased power .
I am in the process of buying a D2 (01) and am very conscious of how much more difficult repairs will be as I understand the electronics can be troublesome .I always liked the sound of the V6 engines and the 5cyl has a note of its own .
The Tdi's have been very easy to maintain and have given no trouble - apart from a clutch fork failure on one at exactly 100K .
I drove a D2 for the first time last week and was impressed by the smoothness and extra power. I hope I don't regret changing - the word refined comes up a lot when comparing the Tdi to the Td5 .

[codprawn]

300 tdi can be tweaked quite easily by turning up the pump and blocking off the EGR Valve. The TD5 can be chipped. On the road the TD5 is better unless you do a lot of towing - then the 300tdi wins unless you go for an auto.

Nothing but nothing will replace the V8 - why not gas it instead? I haven't bothered with my 110 V8csw because I can get about 18mpg on a run and I don't do enough miles in it. I love my V8 - 4th gear through roundabouts etc that will see you in 1st or 2nd in a diesel.

[Tim Pink]

Codprawn
My V8 is already on gas, it has a RPI tuned engine with all the goodies, I have had a lot of fun modifying it & a lot of fun driving it. However I am getting bored with it as there is nothing left to alter! I suppose that now my Suzuki is more or less as I want it I am looking for another project
We are also intending to use the new 110 on a few easy overland trips over the next few years so I need something reliable & easy to get fuel for.

Keep the answers coming as it is helping me to build up a good picture.

Tim

[pitmole]

Hi Tim, I have 300tdi 110, g/f has 110 v8 and we had some td5 discos at work, so drove all of them.
v8 was always the most fun to drive, even if the td5 disco went faster it didn't have the same grin factor. but fuel was always the penalty as you know.
My 300tdi has now done 186,000 miles of mostly motorway work, coupled with off roading along pipeline routes. It has been the most reliable landrover we have ever owned, does a gps max speed of 85 if you floor it and doesnt seem to complain if you do it for hours, yet fuel consumption always seems to be about 27-30 mpg.
The td5 discos were always in need of work, clutch's, ecu problems, loom probems, and just seemed to be more fragile, altho , that may just be perceived wisdom.
I am just about to start building my expo truck, picking up the donor tonight in fact. It will be early 110 csw bodywork so it has more galvi bits and lift up doors, a new galved chassis and motor will be a tdi, best combo there is i think, if you want to work it yourself without dealer support.
I am not a luddite, quite happy with ecu's and computers, just not this time.

[jerryd]

I had a TD5 Dual Cab which had a 35-40% powerchip fitted. I found it to be an excellent vehicle on and off road. Like Phil says it will crawl anywhere on tickover Mine had covered 280,000 kilometres when I sold it only problem I had was a broken cam follower which did quite a bit of damage.But once repaired it went like new again.
I've owned a 200tdi but not the 300tdi, so can't really compare them.I'd definately go the TD5 route again

[burko_uk]

Lot of people keep saying they are concerned because the TD5 has electrics, and how reliable will they be.

The oldest TD5's are nearly 10 years old now - They don't seem to have a reputation like the P38 (rightly or wrongly). Lots of people seem scared by the box under the seat but there don't seem to be many with problems. The only one I've heard of is the oilly engine loom, but that's not a massive problem as I understand it.

If I could afford it I'd have a TD5 without considering the 300TDi.

[Mikeyboy]

Now the Govt. has scrapped the duty on veg oil does running on it appeal?

I save a heap of money by filtering and running on WVO.

It is not without it's problems on a Di engine but with what I am saving I can afford to buy a 300Tdi engine every year and still be in pocket.

It has covered 20K on WVO in 3 years.

10% in the middle of winter and up to 80% in the height of summer.

Big saving.

[alclark]

So what are you running on 10% at the mo? It feels like the slide to winter.

[bobbieslandy]

owned V8s (disco/carbs), 200 + 300tdi and now own a 2002 90 csw. would not consider other engines, electronics are very straight forward if you take the time to research the TD5 and get your hands dirty (clean?!?!).

300 best landy engine ever? if you go by warranty claims then def not. slow, noisey, but good sloggers and mpg.

towing with TD5 much better than tdi, actually feels willing to accelerate and get moving unlike TDi which kinda just "gets there".

TD5 mpg slightly worse than TDi although that is massively offset by the extra performance.

Re clutch probs on TD5, My coverplate fingers work hardened at 40k. as a consequence the extra effort needed to operate the clutch knackered the seals. also damping on flywheel is shot. at 44k i've fitted a new flywheel £196 (fleabay), Clutch kit (£180 was ripped off) new slave/master seals (bout a fiver) pretty much unnacceptable at such a low milage.

Dont be scared about the TD5, usually people who slag them off can't afford one, are stuck in the dark ages and live in caves.

TD5 tuning is NOT expensive. pre sept 2002 the chip was not flash programable therefore you had to buy the chip and get it programmed. My defender was re-mapped and now produces 170bhp and 265lb/f torque. this cost me £330 for a man and his laptop for an hour. Try that with a TDi. now she idles in 4th high box. this is defender gearing though!
To get it hooked up to laptop to diagnose probs costs £30. not always this simple so some detective work has to be used.

My defender has been severly dunked on many occasions (yes there is a snorkel), been severely abused in morocco/ western sahara and generally ragged around. TD5 everytime for me. not that i'm biased or anything lol