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My Jimny failed it's MOT ... but should it?

 
 
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w3526602
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Odometer: 10735
Location: Glynneath, South Wales



PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:05 am    Post subject: My Jimny failed it's MOT ... but should it? Reply with quote

Hi,

My Jimny failed it's MOT on both screen wiper blades, and corrosion behind the headlamps.

As established in another thread, Jimny bodies are seperate from the from the chassis, so presumably, they are NOT testable, unless dangerous.

Can anybody comment, pretty please?

Also of interest, I have it in writing (via Google) advice from VOSA, or whoever, that an MOT failure does not trump the expiry date of your last MOT. So I'm OK to keep driving her for another three weeks.

602

PS, I once had a Triumph Herald fail it's MOT, due to a small hole in the boot floor.

"That's not testable!" I squeaked.

"Oh yes it is"" growled the malevolent tester, "somebody has welded the boot floor to the chassis outrigger, so it's all one piece!"

602

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jojo
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Odometer: 5305




PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This may bed of interest https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/802284...penalty-points-UK Warning; this article is unclear and not definitive.

I believe that if your car fails the MOT then it is recorded as a fail and even if you still have time left on your current certificate it is deemed to be a failure and therefore illegal to use on the roads. However, the situation is unclear from the VOSA website and the legislation may have changed since I last enquired (donkeys years ago).

But, if the car failed then whatever it failed on is deemed to be unsafe so regardless of any time remaining on your current certificate it is advisable to have the faults repaired for your own and other road users safety.

J
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Xpajun
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Joined: 22 Sep 2008
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1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the rust behind the headlight is in such a position (300mm from a headlight fixing point) and/or in a condition so as to cause the headlight to move or fall out then it will fail a MOT - it has nothing to do with being body on chassis. Oh the windscreen wiper blades would fail it alone
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w3526602
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Odometer: 10735
Location: Glynneath, South Wales



PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Both,

I learned from another forum, the the area round the battery box coincides with the body to chassis mounting point. So, yeah, the failures complies with the rules.

My judgement is that there is still sufficient metal to not be unsafe. Some of you may remember the practice of cutting the entire fronts of Minis. The repair section is 200. I have no idea what it will cost to fit. Anybody?

SWMBO (Barbara) (who's pension is bigger than mine) (one time Contracts Manager at DVLA) says get it fixed. That will require some research, as we are new in town (MK)

The requirement is that your car must have passed an MOT within the previous 12 months. Within the last couple of days, I have found a statement by VOSA, stating that an MOT failure does not negate the still extant MOT certificate. I can find Chapter and Verse, if you want to read that for yourself.

I bought this car last year. The PO put 10 of petrol in, to get me home, since when I have added a gallon can's worth twice, and 10 worth about ten days ago.

A lovely little car ... could be worth a trade in of 3,000 against a new car, depending on where and when.

But SWMBO is scheduled for a pair of new knees that will drop her to an auto gearbox. Her Hyundai iIx20 was bought last Summer, and has not yet done 3,000 miles. I don't know if we can afford repayments on two new cars. Probably YES, but it would hurt.

602

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Scrunt44
Just got MTs


Joined: 11 Apr 2016
Odometer: 120
Location: Scotland.



PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So check out having a welder do the remedial work required to have a MOT done.
You want a safe vehicle and that is why a MOT is carried out.

2 different sized wipers needed, i am surprised you never checked before putting in for the MOT.

I had a MOT fail 4 weeks before the MOT expiry date and the DVLA Auto renewed the VED.

It is the driver to be sure they have a vehicle safe between MOT's.

Was the corrosion a Major Fail or Dangerous ?
If Dangerous and you should be trailering away from the test centre.
Or it stays and repair done there, because the car is'Dangerous' as tested.

Links here to Gov.uk sites
http://moneyadviceservice.org.uk/blog/new-mot-vehicle-test-may-2018





I traded in my 2003 Jimny Auto that had passed at least 7 MOT's with the Engine Light on and had been welded twice at Body mounts.
Took 1,000 for it as i wanted rid but it had a MOT till end of year.
It went to Auction and then i spotted it advertised in the Yorkshire area for 4,250. Went back on original plate as i kept mine. VED was disabled.
Then it had new VED showing and Insured.

I got a letter asking as i was the Former Keeper could i help them with the New keeper as there was a NIP for 35 in a 30 mph limit.
I told North Of England Speed Safety Partnership that the car had been In Trade twice at least and someone Insured and put VED on it so bog off and ask them who the keeper is, the DVLA should know.

Then i got a NIP for not revealing the driver.
I wrote and said to get a grip, i sold it in January, the 5 mph over was in June and they can chase the DVLA again for information.

Since then it is not on the MOT checker, or MOT checker, so is SM53 HLD on a personal plate or scrapped / exported? It was shagged after all.
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w3526602
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Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Odometer: 10735
Location: Glynneath, South Wales



PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

The car is no more dangerous now than it was last week ... and probably 6 months ago. To tell the truth, I don't consider it dangerous. But the rules are the rules.

The wiper blades cleared the screen ... I just went out to look at them. I had to look twice to find the problem. Whatever, it was a Suzuki main dealer doing the test ... easier to tell them to fit new blades than to run around a town that I am not familiar with, looking for a stockist.

But thanks for your comments.

602 (aged 80)... who had to sell his 1959 109" Land Rover, which he rebuilt on a new galv chassis, but had to sell because of his wife's arthritic knees (replacement knees, scheduled for next month have just been cancelled) I haven't touched a spanner since June last year.

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Scrunt44
Just got MTs


Joined: 11 Apr 2016
Odometer: 120
Location: Scotland.



PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So not a good thing, if it is a Dangerous Fail, is it a Dangerous fail?

dangerous then and now and you never checked, never checked the wiper blades either.
Problem is common, they split, other problem people fit the wrong length and they hit the passenger side.

602, i know your age, have spoken with you over the years, but this is 2019 and i am no fan of unsafe vehicles on the road and i expect you would not be either if nearest and dearest were killed or have life changing injuries.

If it is a Dangerous Fail, i take it your Insurers will cover 3rd party claims but your insurance is void because the car should be off the road.
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w3526602
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Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Odometer: 10735
Location: Glynneath, South Wales



PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

OK ... I went and actually digested what it says on the MOT.

REPAIR IMMEDIATELY (MAJOR DEFECTS)

Windscreen wiper does not clear windscreen effectively. off side front.

Yes it does clear the screen, but the blade needs replacing, so not a problem, and not worth arguing over.

Integral body structure or chassis has excessive corrosion, seriously affecting it's strength within 30cm of a body mounting

The Zuke does not have an integral body structure, the body can be lifted off. As far as I can make out, the corrosion does not extend to the chassis. But hey, what do I know.

Both of the above are listed as Repair Immediatelu (major defects)

SWMBO has given me Executive Authority to get it fixed. It's a matter of finding someone to do the job, in an unfamiliar "up-market" town. (Milton Keynes) It wouldn't be a problem in the Swansea Valley.

I'll wait till it's all done and dusted the challenge VOSA (SWMBO used to be the Information (Press) Officer at DVLA (See below), a couple of paragraphs.

SWMBO is/was scheduled to have a couple of new knees in a couple of weeks (just postponed), which means she will be relegated to an "auto".
She currently has a Hyundai Ix20, rising a year old, with under 3,000 miles on the clock. Juggling three cars ... the Ix20, the Jiminy, and the her next car (whatever that is, but will need to be an auto). There are firms offering 3000 trade-in on "anything".

Can anyone recommend a body shop in Milton Keynes?

602 (Who has verbal executive authority to do anything required to fix the Jimny) ... (and also raised a mortgage to buy a bungalow when he was 79. Very easy, if you know who to ask.

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w3526602
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Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Odometer: 10735
Location: Glynneath, South Wales



PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Hmmm! "No answer!" was the stern reply

Aged 79, we took out a mortgage so we could move to a bungalow nearer to our daughter. Easiest mortgage we've ever applied for. Resently recieved a letter saying there is another 14,000 available at 3%

Solution! trade the Suzuki for 2,000,in against a Dacia automatic say, keep SWMBOs Hyundai. SWMBO drives the "auto" until her knees are better, then reverts to her Ix20, Dacia then becomes MY 4x4. Dream on!

Hmmm! Probably easier/cheaper to keep the Zuke, with it's new chunky tyres, and buy another with a long MOT. I've got room to park up to about 10 vehicles in the front and side gardens, drive and garage.

I'll just give Wilkie (our JTR) a kicking, to clear my mind, so I can ponder.

602

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jojo
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Odometer: 5305




PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad you are getting your motor fixed. I don't know of anywhere in MK that can do the job (mind you, there is nothing useful anywhere in MK) but if you look in your old stomping ground of Burton Latimer or the Rushden area you should find someone there who can do the job, or try this link https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d...and+rover+garages

re autos; most people, once they have driven a good auto don't want to go back to a manual.

Hope SWIMBO's op goes well when she finally gets it.

J
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w3526602
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Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Odometer: 10735
Location: Glynneath, South Wales



PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

If you want to know what danger is, drive round Cambridge.

How long before we nave to wear a full skate-board kit, just to walk down to the corner shop.

If you want people to be safe, then make their environment dangerous.

I have heard a jay-walker argue with a driver "your the one with the dangerous weapon".

Me? I passed my test in 1958, in a 1935 Austin 10. Due to the Suez do, we were allowed to drive without being accompanied. I had three professional lessons. I passed my test again (Ministry examiner), in an RAF Bedford RL 4x4 truck, mixing it with the trams in Blackpool ... 5 lessons. Ministry examiner. I taught my wife to drive in a Sunbeam Talbot 90 on Penang Island. She had one professional lesson in UK, and passed her test in South Norwood (lLondon) in a rusty Mini.

Google Reliant Sabre 361WYD images That was her shopping car for nine years. She also had a TVR Vixen 1600, an MGB GT, a Midget, a spitfire, and a Honda CRX, , never had a parking ticket. Clean licence. Full NCB. Did I mention her right arm was mangled at birth? She does not have MOPED entitlement.

We were driving on the M4 from Swansea, to London, in a Moskvitch van towing a 12ft caravan. She asked if she could have a go. As we approached London, I was aware that she kept glancing at me. I wasn't going to offer, and wasn't going to ask. Saturday morning ... Hammerssmith, Notting hill, Clapham, Balham, Tooting, Mitcham, and into Thornton Heath, where my parents lived. You've got to be proud of the girl

I owned Robin Rew's racing Scimitar LBM563G for several years. It red-lined at 6500rpm, and pulled 30mph per 1000RPM. I'll let you do the math. (I never took it over 130mph, although the timing gear let go one day ...45mph in first gear. Expensive.

One endoresment, in 1964, police clocked me at 80mph in my 850cc 1962 Minivan, on the M1. I went to court, pleaded Not Guilty. At that time, vans were restricted to 40mph. My defence was that my van had seats in the back making it a car (Purchase tax was paid) The Clerk of the Court produced his book of rules saynig that the RTA required both seats and windows. Fined 2 and Their Worships appologised for the endorsement.

Can anyone tell me the current speed limit for a small van, not on a motorway?

I've never had a parking ticket. I did have three lots of NCB, but two of them lapsed after two years, coz I only had one vehicle.

But to get on topic. My wife checked DVLAs MOT website today. My Jiminy's MOT still expires later this month, despite the fail.

I believe that DVLA record fails immediately.

602

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w3526602
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Odometer: 10735
Location: Glynneath, South Wales



PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS,

My wife (Barbara) spent a day at the police driving school at Hendon, had a go on their skid-pan. But that's another (inteteresting ) story.

While out on a demonstration run she asked the Sergeant Instructor ...

"Er ... we have been driving for 20 minutes, you've never got above third gear, and you are doing 85mph?"

"I expect my trainees to be doing 125mph on this stretch, and I want the car to be able to accelerate without hesitating

"Oh!"

602

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w3526602
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Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Odometer: 10735
Location: Glynneath, South Wales



PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PPS,

Barbara was Press Officer at DVLA ... amongst other interesting things.

She had to attend a meeting with the Sec of State Tom King. Twenty minutes before the meeting, she was told she was taking the chair.

Going down to lunch, she shared the lift with the SofS.

"They dropped you in it there!" he commented

On another occasion, Plod told her she was required to carry her driving licence at all times

"I attend the monthly meetings of Senior Police Officers. While they want that to be the case, it is not law ... yet!"


602

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jojo
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Joined: 11 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can anyone tell me the current speed limit for a small van, not on a motorway?

If it is on a car chassis, or car size, then the national speed limit applies, anything bigger such as a transit type van then it is 60mph on a dual carriage way and 50 mph on a single carriage way unless there is a lower limit in which case the lower limit applies.

J
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Scrunt44
Just got MTs


Joined: 11 Apr 2016
Odometer: 120
Location: Scotland.



PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That includes the likes of my SWB Mitsubishi Shogun Warrior.
No rear seats and no rear windows. (Blacked out). It is car derived but not classed as such. (GVW) means it is classed as Commercial and lower speed limits apply.
http://autoexpress.co.uk/vans/99605/uk-van-spee...-you-need-to-know
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w3526602
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Joined: 10 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Scrunt,

Thanks for that. So my offence in 1964 would not be an offence today?

er ... how many of you 4x4 drivers know that if you present your vehicle for MOT, with a tow bar (not sure about the ball) without a trailer electrics socket, you should be failed?

"But I only use it to move my boat out of the yard and down the slipway!"

Tough!

If doing something is possible, the law assumes you will do it.

602

To my mind, the MGW of the towbar, and nose weight should be nailed onto the towbar (writ huge), and similarly on the trailers drawbar.

Actually, a trailer IS required to have it's MGW stamped or painted on the drawbar. Does your little box trailer comply? No mention of nose weight.

602[/i]

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Scrunt44
Just got MTs


Joined: 11 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Should be failed'. Don't think so.
If you should be failed you would be failed.

Tow Bars can be fitted as Recovery Points, not that i do as i use a Bridle and 2 recovery points.
Then people have a Tow Bar not to tow but possibly to fit bike racks to
you this might not need a Light Board if Reg Plate or Lights not obscured.
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w3526602
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Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Odometer: 10735
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

There's more!

If that jalopy that has been sitting in your garage since the year dot, touches the road with one tyre ... you are liable to have DVLA demand 6 years back duty.

A debt lasts for six years. DVLA do not have to prove it has touched the road during that six years, just that it did yesterday

602[/i]

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Scrunt44
Just got MTs


Joined: 11 Apr 2016
Odometer: 120
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Move with the times, if the year dot was over 40 years back and a Classic.
Then of course if you had your car on a SORN and i do.

Then of course they have to see it touching the road or rolling across the pavement to the road.
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w3526602
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Joined: 10 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi JoJo,

Sorry, I'm reply to a comment you made some time ago

But, if the car failed then whatever it failed on is deemed to be unsafe

I don't like the word "DEEMED". There is the LAW, and now there is DEEMED. Next they will be "deeming" that you have been driving your unsafe car since the day after it passed it's last MOT. Far fetched?

Try this for size! You inherit Grand Dads old clunker that has been sitting in his garage for the last twenty years. You co to collect it, but can't get your transporter into his drive. The second a tyre touches the road, you are liable for six years back duty.

NO ... I'm wrong there. Your Grandfather is liable for six years back duty while you are responsible for the current months duty, OR, the duty backdated tilll when you became the Registeredd Keeper.

Solution, book an MOT and don't turn up, unless you have to. No VED payable. Or register the car in your name, which will set the clock back to zero, but it will start ticking again, so one months back duty may still be payable.
Any change of keeper sets the clock to zero.

Politics! Sorry! There is legislation going thru the EU, that will require ALL mechanically propelled vehicles to be insured at all times, even if they are locked in your garage, even if they are just a lawnmower. Does that include electric hover mowers. I'm not sure about boxes of bits that are registered as vehicles.

602

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Scrunt44
Just got MTs


Joined: 11 Apr 2016
Odometer: 120
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a load of guff IMO over a bit of corrosion on a Jimny, and a MOT fail.

Just keep you and your nearest and dearest safe and other road users.
I know people get old through common sense or sometimes it seems just luck.

For the sake of the many just get the car fixed and MOT'd or not, get it off the road.
Debates on Governments or laws, or Legislation are for other sections.

Enough crap being talked by Farage, Johnson and Rees-Mogg.
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jojo
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 11 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scrunt44 wrote:
What a load of guff IMO over a bit of corrosion on a Jimny, and a MOT fail.

Just keep you and your nearest and dearest safe and other road users.
I know people get old through common sense or sometimes it seems just luck.

For the sake of the many just get the car fixed and MOT'd or not, get it off the road.
Debates on Governments or laws, or Legislation are for other sections.

Enough crap being talked by Farage, Johnson and Rees-Mogg.


I agree with you Scrunt.

602, 'Deemed' is not the same as 'Law'. It is quite a fluid word and can be used in a similar way as 'considered' or 'believed' or 'judged' or even 'to hold an opinion'.

But at the end of the day your old banger failed the MOT so it must be fixed, scrapped or kept off the road.

J
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w3526602
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Joined: 10 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

The Jimny is booked in for repair, at another garage

I feel I can talk to their tester. In Wales, I always sat in the driving seat.

For this MOT, I was ordered out of the test bay, with no observation site available ... as far as I can see. Some garages sit you in reception with CCTV. At least the gave me coffee and biscuits.

I won't complain ... I might want to buy SWMBO a new car (an auto because of her knees)

602

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