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200 tdi boost problem

 
 
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davev8app
Gate Opener


Joined: 05 Apr 2017
Odometer: 5
Location: lincolnshire



PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:32 pm    Post subject: 200 tdi boost problem Reply with quote

i may have a boost prob.. too much ...for some time i have notice lack of pull at very low revs .it not happen over night i just release it not what it was ..pulling out of a junction at low revs and decking it the pickup is slow and scary if an oncoming car is faster than you think... also i recently realised i cannot feel when the turbo is coming in ..i used to feel an obvious push when it came in i think from about 14 or 1500 rpm however once going it pulls well. others comment that it goes very well as well

so i think before i do anything and after i check boost pipes are ok etc i get a boost gauge ...i was expecting it had dropped to 3Ib ish or something ..so temporary plumbing it in to the pipe that goes to the pump at the turbo end..got my son to read it as i drive ..pulled out of the drive when i got in to 3ed i decked it ..0...2..3.6..9.15 and wound up to just over 16PSI if i held 4th gear
thinking the gage was a duffer i codged up my digital tyre gauge instead of the boost gage (why did i not think of that before ..the boost gauge is not going to be mounted just to test)
re tested and maxed at 16.1 PSI ..dead the same.. now what i do notice the boost not start climbing until i have past 2200 rpm so that why its dead coming out of junctions

So i look to see where the pin in the pump is set ...it was at its most shut off position so i set it at 180 degrees so to the max ...instantly could tell it was way more responsive just turning round in my drive so on my test boost came way up faster 6..10..15..19.20. max out if held at 21PSI it was way faster evan at high revs ...i did think the pin adjusted manly off boost fueling i not see any smoke looking in the mirror at speed but more if i blip it standing still than i had ...so is my wastegate stuck or not working .. if stuck its been like it for a long time ..i did put some mole grips on the westgate lever and it had some freeplay movement but it felt like i would have to force it to go against the spring ...is this normal???? also from the factory is the pin in its most mild position????
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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3234



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turbos are only efficient when the engine is running above 2000 rpm that applies to all turbos on all engines.

Iím thinking perhaps that you may have fuelling problems - dirty fuel or air filter, if it nay happens when cold then check your glo-plugs.
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davev8app
Gate Opener


Joined: 05 Apr 2017
Odometer: 5
Location: lincolnshire



PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xpajun wrote:
Turbos are only efficient when the engine is running above 2000 rpm that applies to all turbos on all engines.

Iím thinking perhaps that you may have fuelling problems - dirty fuel or air filter, if it nay happens when cold then check your glo-plugs.


not really ..it depends on the size of turbo.. and the RPM range the engine is designed to run in .. max torque for the 200 TDi is at 1800rpm so plenty of boost or all of it under load by then some tractors and lorries are flat outy not much more than that and are ideal between 1100 rpm and 1800 rpm ....the glow plugs on a TDI i believe only work before and as the the engine is starting not like many cars that keep them on for 5 or 10 min.. my glow plugs have not worked for the 8 years i have had the truck and never bothered connecting them back up when i had the head off at 135K.. (18 month old son put 2 inch decking screws in my intercooler before i put the pipe back on )but starts 1st piston over on the most frosty morning we have had ..i think the glow plugs are only needed on worn engines or in the arctic....no fuel problem as i can get arrested for speeding with a iforwilams and 3 ton digger behind it...my problem was no pull at low revs and to much boost at higher rpm the low rpm pull is solved with the pump pin moved 180 degrees but i would like to know if the wastegate lever should move with mole grips and it would be nice to know the typical position of the pump pin on a factory set engine
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stable
Articulating


Joined: 19 May 2005
Odometer: 819
Location: Northumberland



PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 200 tdi boost problem Reply with quote

davev8app wrote:
i may have a boost prob.. too much ...for some time i have notice lack of pull at very low revs .it not happen over night i just release it not what it was ..pulling out of a junction at low revs and decking it the pickup is slow and scary if an oncoming car is faster than you think... also i recently realised i cannot feel when the turbo is coming in ..i used to feel an obvious push when it came in i think from about 14 or 1500 rpm however once going it pulls well. others comment that it goes very well as well

so i think before i do anything and after i check boost pipes are ok etc i get a boost gauge ...i was expecting it had dropped to 3Ib ish or something ..so temporary plumbing it in to the pipe that goes to the pump at the turbo end..got my son to read it as i drive ..pulled out of the drive when i got in to 3ed i decked it ..0...2..3.6..9.15 and wound up to just over 16PSI if i held 4th gear
thinking the gage was a duffer i codged up my digital tyre gauge instead of the boost gage (why did i not think of that before ..the boost gauge is not going to be mounted just to test)
re tested and maxed at 16.1 PSI ..dead the same.. now what i do notice the boost not start climbing until i have past 2200 rpm so that why its dead coming out of junctions

So i look to see where the pin in the pump is set ...it was at its most shut off position so i set it at 180 degrees so to the max ...instantly could tell it was way more responsive just turning round in my drive so on my test boost came way up faster 6..10..15..19.20. max out if held at 21PSI it was way faster evan at high revs ...i did think the pin adjusted manly off boost fueling i not see any smoke looking in the mirror at speed but more if i blip it standing still than i had ...so is my wastegate stuck or not working .. if stuck its been like it for a long time ..i did put some mole grips on the westgate lever and it had some freeplay movement but it felt like i would have to force it to go against the spring ...is this normal???? also from the factory is the pin in its most mild position????


It's an interesting one!
I've never tweaked my FIP, but from what I understand it's recommended to mark it's oringinal position with a dab of paint or something. That way, if you move it, you have a reference mark to put it back to standard. I might be wrong, but if the pin wasn't marked initially then there may be no way of knowing where to put it back to.

I've copied this from another forum.
To turn the boost up you effectively need to shorten the waste gate actuator rod by means of the screw adjuster. The rod connects to a diaphragm inside the actuator and most people just loosen the adjuster and turn the rod with pliers while holding the adjuster still. However you risk tearing the rod from the diaphragm if you are heavy handed or the ball connector has coroded.

The proper way is to disconnect the actuator rod from the wastegate arm and make your adjustments holding the rod still and turning the adjuster. It can be a fight to get the rod reconnected against the diaphragm spring pressure though which is why peeps dont bother.

A half turn shorter on the the rod equals about 1psi increase on my TD5 turbo so take it easy. I'd advise you to go no more than 18psi max boost on any diesel engine and then only with a sound engine. Go up in small steps and record the changes so you can go back if needed. Too much and you will blow a head gasket and overheat your valves and exhaust manifold.

Does this help your waste gate actuator question?

I wonder if you're low rev power issue is due to over fuelling and so inefficient burning/bang? Perhaps due to the FIP pin adjustment. I know you say you are not seeing black smoke, so I'm just thinking out loud here.
Another suspect is air getting in to the fuel system, but again that doesn't make sense with what you're getting over 2200 rpm Shocked
I have to say you are getting a hell of a lot of boost pressure there. My recently rebuilt 300tdi with a reconditioned turbo on it produces 13psi when I'm thrashing it. Where is your pressure tapping taken from, just off the turbo? Mine is off the back of the inlet manifold and so I'll be losing pressure over the intercooler.
Another option is a lack of air at low revs, but this also doesn't make sense with the power and boost you are getting at higher revs. Sad
Presumably you have checked your intercooler hoses to see if they are de-laminating and causing a blockage? Hope my ramblings give some food for thought. And yes, 200Tdi's are well known for firing, no bother, without the need for the heater plugs.
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