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Niva for Winch Challenge use.

 
 
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RobotMan
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Odometer: 251
Location: Bishop Auckland



PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:38 am    Post subject: Niva for Winch Challenge use. Reply with quote

Having postponed the build of our Portal axled Cherokee as we weren't going to get it done in time for this season without too many bodges, my friend Mike and I decided to get a Niva.

Off he went to e-bay and will be coming back with this shortly.






It would appear to be more set up for road rallying than winch challenging but we'll see what happens, should be a giggle!

Will need a winch on the front and maybe some sort of difflocks. Beyond that we'll have to see lol.

Anybody recognise this motor from Abergaveny way?

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Rob (Robotman) Taylor.
MonkeyMotorSport
Big Dog Engineering
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simonallen
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Odometer: 1019
Location: In the s**t most of the time...


1997 Lada Niva

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seems very well built!

I think I read on the ebay ad when it was on there, that it has scorpion lift springs. if it does, you may find it's too stiff especially on the front. Most tend to use the "hoodoo" lift which keeps standard fron springs. they don't articulate much on the front at the best of times, and the stiffer springs do a lot to make it worse.
Diff locks are hard to come by, and are expensive when you factor in the cost of the car. Much cheaper and would make more sense to swap the axles for something stronger with lockers already fitted if you plan on driving with a lead foot.
If you do keep the standard drive train, I built a custom steel front diff casing for my v6 which gets rid of the vunerable aluminium standard one.

Will be good to see a niva used in competition again, not many use them for that sort of stuff any more
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know it but it looks tidy and well sorted. Lockers would make a tremendous difference for winch challenge events though!
Regards,

Just read your other post - given your experience with diffs in general, you may have ready access to the units used in Escort RS2000's? Try them.


Last edited by Guest on Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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madman
Just got MTs


Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Odometer: 203
Location: Winnipeg, MB Canada


1996 Lada Niva

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's just for comps why not weld up the spiders? Or is that not permitted?
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RobotMan
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Odometer: 251
Location: Bishop Auckland



PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hoodoo wrote:
Don't know it but it looks tidy and well sorted. Lockers would make a tremendous difference for winch challenge events though!
Regards,

Just read your other post - given your experience with diffs in general, you may have ready access to the units used in Escort RS2000's? Try them.


Escort diff seems like a good option but pricey and dare I say it, too easy lol. What I mean is there has to be a cheap way to do it. I'm currently assessing doing a Pantom Grip style unit using a Landy Diff centre I have got to hand. Very little area on the inner face of the ouput gears for my liking but worth a pop, I have lots of spare Landy diff middles.

Welding them up is of course a quick and easy option but I'd rather have some differential action for sideslopes. It may well be the answer though if all else fails. It'll be a swine to drive on the roads mind.

There may well be a good reason for Nivas not getting much competition use, we'll have to see what happens. I suspect small tyres could be a significant factor. Hopefully countered by being light and relatively nimble.

The first round is at Herrington woods which as the name implies is a wooded venue. I think this will be to the Nivas advantage as we won't have deep ruts and bogs to contend with, it is very dry and extremely well drained as well as being very tight. Niva's do have a good turning circle don't they?

We will have to sort out storage for waffles, I have a feeling we'll need a good few. I'm thinking it might be good to compete with the tailgate removed for quick access.

Front diff casing, does that get smashed/fail or both? Any pictures of your replacement cover?

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Rob (Robotman) Taylor.
MonkeyMotorSport
Big Dog Engineering
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crb247
Just got MTs


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Odometer: 452
Location: Sault Ste Marie, ON, Canada



PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Niva's get used lots for competitions but only in certain countries where they are plentiful. (As with any other make)

This is a pic of Madman's steel front diff. Simon's got the technical specs But Madman's got the jig Wink

madman wrote:
...Built a steel front diff!

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'96 Niva 1.7i Daily Driver / Work in progress
'98 4X4 MPV Wife's Ride
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baxter
Articulating


Joined: 08 May 2006
Odometer: 647
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand


1990 Lada Niva

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, plenty of trials Nivas in Europe. I'd have a look at their set-ups as some of them are quite into it and would know exactly what a Niva needs (and of course the rule book for whatever code you're planning to go in).

That looks like a nicely set-up Niva you've got to start with btw, good choice. I'd love that for my weekend toy. Heck I'd probably even enter it in a gravel hillclimb or 2. Smile

I don't know a lot about winch-challenge vehicles, but since you've got all the safety gear already, a LSD/locker, increased suspension travel/lift and as bigger wheels as the gearing allows would be the first - and probably only - big mods I'd be thinking about. Other than more power... Smile

Yes, I'd also make a front diff guard if there's rocks anywhere near angry driving; alloy smashes relatively easily. The steel one above is best of course if the inch or the guard takes up is needed.

I'd also consider beefing up some of the areas where the body is known to be weak (eg steering box mount, TC and g'box mounts) if winch challenge is as tough as it sounds. If you're lucky this may have already been done when it was set up for rally.

Check out the resources page on my site, there's heaps there that will be of interest.


Btw, I assume they're Bilsteins dampers? They're the best damper I've driven in hillclimb etc cars. Quality kit. However, yours are probably set up for rally (ie fast gravel driving) and hence I assume probably too stiff for serious off-roading. The good news is that Bilsteins can be rebuilt to your requirements; ring the company that adjusts them tell what you've got and what you're using the vehicle for and I expect they'll be pretty helpful. Note that's all an assumption, they may well be Bilstein's off-road dampers, which I know nothing about (but probably brilliant like the rest of their stuff).
PS - bags first dibs on them if you swap them for Ranchos etc. Smile

__________________________________
1990 Niva 1600, 2" lift, LSD
www.ladaniva.co.uk/baxter -Baxter's Temple of Niva Site
If you do not have anything to occupy yourself - buy a Niva.
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RobotMan
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Odometer: 251
Location: Bishop Auckland



PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ebay listing details,

Quote:

Lada Niva 4x4 off roader
Ex-Lada challenge winner !!!!
Selling due to a new project
This lada has had a lot of money spent on it, it has....
Full safety devices rollcage
motordrive bucket seats on alloy mounts
alloy floor protecters inside
alloy navigators footrest
spare wheel post
OMP racing pedals
OMP steering wheel
OMP 2.25l Handheld extinguisher
Perspex windows all round, front screen is laminated
doors have been lightened
alloy OMP bonnet pins
stainless OMP boot springs
Battery is relocated to the back and housed in a red fibreglass battery box
fuse box and relays mounted on dashboard
Kill switch and starter switch
All fuel and brake lines run inside (very neatly)
Twin electric kenlowe type fans
Twin coils mounted high up within engine bay
All wiring in engine bay tucked away neatly and spiral bound for protection
bilstein suspension all round
painted silver underneath and is mint
competition exhaust
twin air horns
Needs very little work to pass a MOT test.
Needs a flasher unit, and a oil leak sorting on the engine
the starter does not engage first time but will catch if you keep flicking it over on the starter switch inside. (possibly brushes or lack of use) you can get these reconditioned.

I have had a closer look at where the oil is leaking from, and it seems like the oil seal is gone at the rear of the engine near by the gearbox.
Also the car has not been driven since i have owned it only moved a short distance outside
the engine is excellent and runs well though
But i think it would be safer if it were moved on a trailer.


We are both really looking forward to getting this little beastie up north. Just waiting on cheques clearing and haulage (worked out cheaper and much less hassle than driving halfway across the country and back).

The less we can get away with doing to the Lada the better. I've never had any dealings with IFS so it should be interesting, no more clattering the front axle over rocks like the Landy does.

It looks quite high (for a Niva) and from the picture I can't see any lift blocks so must be spring lift. I'm sure we can brace the top end, we'll see what happens when we strap a big heavy winch on it.

Are the drive shafts/CV's reliable? How big a job is it to change them should we bust them on the day?

Looking at the underside picture it seems to lend itself to a nice long Ally guard plate from front to back between the chassis rails. This should stiffen it up nicely and allow us to just drag it over obstacles without worry.

Rear oil seal on the engine? Big Job, engine strip or fit from the rear?

Sorry for all the questions but it's all new to me this Lada stuff Embarassed

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Rob (Robotman) Taylor.
MonkeyMotorSport
Big Dog Engineering
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Aman85
Just got MTs


Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Odometer: 171
Location: Norway



PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobotMan wrote:


Are the drive shafts/CV's reliable? How big a job is it to change them should we bust them on the day?



The drive shafts on the front are weak. If you drive with your head you should be ok, if you drive with your right foot, probably not! They are easy to change on a petrol Niva. shouldn't take to long Smile

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Niva 1.9TID 31"
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crb247
Just got MTs


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Odometer: 452
Location: Sault Ste Marie, ON, Canada



PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Driveshafts are at 10 minute switch-out if the hardware is prepped (loosened and not seized lol). Front halfshafts would be about 20 min if properly prepared for and practiced ahead of time.

The rear oil seal is a transfer case and tranny out job but you can have both out in less than an hour with the proper tools (maybe an hour and a half with the RHD) and the seal is located in a removable housing bolted around the rear of the crankshaft.

Go to David's site http://www.turbo-nutter.com and Download the PDF manuals located at the bottom. They will have everything you need to know in it. The rear oil seal is in 1600-2 (engine). Almost every single Russian piece on them is rebuild-able.

Chow for now.

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'96 Niva 1.7i Daily Driver / Work in progress
'98 4X4 MPV Wife's Ride
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baxter
Articulating


Joined: 08 May 2006
Odometer: 647
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand


1990 Lada Niva

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobotMan wrote:

Looking at the underside picture it seems to lend itself to a nice long Ally guard plate from front to back between the chassis rails. This should stiffen it up nicely and allow us to just drag it over obstacles without worry.


Aye:





And you could probably get yours a inch or so higher since your anti roll-bar looks to have been removed.
Speaking of which, a lot of people remove their bar and trim about 40mm from all the front bump stops (or add bj-spacers) to get more articulation.




Looking at the angle of your wishbones, yes it does look like it's already raised a couple of inches (and most people don't recommend any more as big angless are know to kill the CVs). Plenty on lifts at: http://www.ladaniva.co.uk/baxter/resources/BaxterLift.htm

__________________________________
1990 Niva 1600, 2" lift, LSD
www.ladaniva.co.uk/baxter -Baxter's Temple of Niva Site
If you do not have anything to occupy yourself - buy a Niva.


Last edited by baxter on Mon May 25, 2009 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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baxter
Articulating


Joined: 08 May 2006
Odometer: 647
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand


1990 Lada Niva

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And here's some random pics:










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1990 Niva 1600, 2" lift, LSD
www.ladaniva.co.uk/baxter -Baxter's Temple of Niva Site
If you do not have anything to occupy yourself - buy a Niva.
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RobotMan
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Odometer: 251
Location: Bishop Auckland



PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantastic replys thanks.

Love the bobtailed/narrowed Niva, pure class! Razz

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Rob (Robotman) Taylor.
MonkeyMotorSport
Big Dog Engineering
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terence
Guest








PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dont tell the landy boys but its the only car i would happily take anywhere

health to drive and i wish you every success.

PS dont put any landy bits on her... shhh
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vik2
Gate Opener


Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Odometer: 42




PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

more inspiration Cool
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Lada Niva
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baxter
Articulating


Joined: 08 May 2006
Odometer: 647
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand


1990 Lada Niva

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

baxter wrote:
...I assume they're Bilsteins dampers? They're the best damper I've driven in hillclimb etc cars. Quality kit.

Oh cock, why did I say that out loud?

- I blew a seal in one of my Honda's Bilsteins in a hillclimb today. Sad Sad
(To be fair to their good name the guy who rebuilt them last year did say the shaft wear was marginal).




Anyway, more images..... Smile











__________________________________
1990 Niva 1600, 2" lift, LSD
www.ladaniva.co.uk/baxter -Baxter's Temple of Niva Site
If you do not have anything to occupy yourself - buy a Niva.
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RobotMan
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

terence mckibben wrote:
dont tell the landy boys but its the only car i would happily take anywhere

health to drive and i wish you every success.

PS dont put any landy bits on her... shhh


I won't tell anyone lol.

Early on I was contemplating fitting a Series back axle with an ARB and Kam 24 spline shafts with a ring and pinion ratio to match the front. Series Landy being same width you see oh and wheelbase. And then I remembered the diff offset Doh!

I'm waiting to hear back on some diff centre bits and bob which may make up what I need but we'll have to wait and see, could just be a dead end idea.

Looking at most of those pictures it seems that the rear suspension seems the place to focus. Really not interested in swapping in a live front or else you might as well start with a different vehicle or just drop a Niva shell onto something else.

Mounting a winch to a 23 year old monocoque vehicle is my current concern as this is a must do job.

Baxter, bad luck mate with the dampers, I guess you can't abuse parts indefinitely however good they are.

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Rob (Robotman) Taylor.
MonkeyMotorSport
Big Dog Engineering
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crb247
Just got MTs


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Odometer: 452
Location: Sault Ste Marie, ON, Canada



PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to improve the stress loading on the front frame where the bumper tubes attach you can extend the bumper tubes (or whatever tubing you use) down the frame a piece to get a couple of extra mounting points in 'er. I've also seen where extra plate was welded down the outside of both front framerails to strengthen winch mounting..

This is a good example of some.

http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=19687&highlight=winch

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'96 Niva 1.7i Daily Driver / Work in progress
'98 4X4 MPV Wife's Ride
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vik2
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Joined: 09 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

another example of mounting a winch

http://vik2.unas.cz/_private/navijak.htm

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RobotMan
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Link


Link


Quick spin big oil leak so....

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Rob (Robotman) Taylor.
MonkeyMotorSport
Big Dog Engineering
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crb247
Just got MTs


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you think of it with your quick test spin?
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'98 4X4 MPV Wife's Ride
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RobotMan
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should be a lot of fun. If it will manage what we want from it, well time will tell.
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Rob (Robotman) Taylor.
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Big Dog Engineering
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subor22
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, here's a good site for you where you can read about winch ............. I personally really liked it, so check out and you will not regret it)
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