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Which truck?

 
 
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wadsy
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Joined: 04 Oct 2017
Odometer: 8
Location: West Berkshire



PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject: Which truck? Reply with quote

I currently have a modified (33's, 2” suspension lift, 2” body lift etc) swb 2.8TD Mk2 Pajero, but I'm thinking about getting something else to take on more challenging stuff as, capable as the Paj is, it got frustratingly stuck a few times in 'deep-ish' mud/ruts when last out at a pay and play site. My mates Defender didn't! Size and space-wise the Paj is fine: two doors, 4 seats (rear two fold down) and ideal boot space for my needs.

I'm probably getting a bit ahead of myself really as my health is poor and I'm not sure if I can even carry on off-roading!...however, I always try to remain positive and hopefull and it does give me some motivation to life, hence the research Smile

With the following usage in mind, I'm looking for a bit of a “jack-of-all-trades” I reckon!

Which would better suits my needs; a Defender, a Wrangler (TJ or JK) a modified Discovery or other?...

Auto
Diesel - better for wading?
Ok on road - to drive to/from events and use as a run-about. I'd like: doors! not too noisy and some luggage space
Green-laning inc. wading
Pay and Play inc. deep-ish ruts/mud
Good for trials events
I'd plan to have; winch, sliders, snorkel, roll-cage (external?) Lockers etc
Larger tyres (35's, 37's!?) than the Pajero if realistically possible.

I'd quite like a two door JK; more modern, bit nicer inside, but to buy and then modify one would be too expensive I think. The TJ would be a 4.0L petrol. The Defender may be a better option, and, I think it would be cheaper to modify to the spec I'd like than the Jeeps?

Any thoughts please?

Cheers
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cynic-al
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Odometer: 5970
Location: scunthorpe


1989 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Land Rovers are cheap to modify and repair as they're so common things are cheap.

You're asking too much from one vehicle in my opinion. I had almost 37" tyres on my RRC and although it could cruise at around 60mph it wasn't much of a road car. The suspension was very high and very soft and I had to cut out the arches and doors and weld them back in higher up to clear on flex. I put Toyota axles on as Land Rover axles would just break with big tyres. I used to kill them with 31" tyres. The Toyotas also gave me locking diffs and lower gearing. To get the same with a Land Rover axle you'll be looking at throwing a few thousand at them.

The Land Rover TDis do the job but I find them a bit weak, you've got to keep them on the turbo, if the revs drop there's just nothing which again big tyres don't help with. People will spend a long time telling you how much power they've got but it's all on the turbo. They will swim very well straight out the box with just the usual water proofing but if it's a road car do you really want wet seats? Plus it'll soon find the weak spots in your electrics.

I would recommend looking for a solid axle vehicle as it makes things easier for bigger tyres but beyond that they're all kind of an engine, gearbox and axles so it depends how much you want to throw nut and bolt parts at it and how much you want to cut and weld. If you're looking to just nut and bolt parts to it then get a land rover as they're easy to get parts for.

Discoverys are good road cars but they have a big **** offroad and the height of the body can make them wallow. Defenders are far from comfortable but the body is practical for offroad. It's up to your taste!

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teamidris
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Odometer: 3323
Location: Staffordshire UK



PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, a solid £2600 to get landrover axels sorted.

We race on 33” tyres and maul it about on the winch. But, our problem is usually slippy clay.

I’m honestly stuck what to suggest these days? Bob tail mrk1 discoveries with a load of modifications seem to be lasting the long haul? No abs and all that low tech stuff.

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wadsy
Gate Opener


Joined: 04 Oct 2017
Odometer: 8
Location: West Berkshire



PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cynic-al wrote:
Land Rovers are cheap to modify and repair as they're so common things are cheap.

You're asking too much from one vehicle in my opinion. I had almost 37" tyres on my RRC and although it could cruise at around 60mph it wasn't much of a road car. The suspension was very high and very soft and I had to cut out the arches and doors and weld them back in higher up to clear on flex. I put Toyota axles on as Land Rover axles would just break with big tyres. I used to kill them with 31" tyres. The Toyotas also gave me locking diffs and lower gearing. To get the same with a Land Rover axle you'll be looking at throwing a few thousand at them.

The Land Rover TDis do the job but I find them a bit weak, you've got to keep them on the turbo, if the revs drop there's just nothing which again big tyres don't help with. People will spend a long time telling you how much power they've got but it's all on the turbo. They will swim very well straight out the box with just the usual water proofing but if it's a road car do you really want wet seats? Plus it'll soon find the weak spots in your electrics.

I would recommend looking for a solid axle vehicle as it makes things easier for bigger tyres but beyond that they're all kind of an engine, gearbox and axles so it depends how much you want to throw nut and bolt parts at it and how much you want to cut and weld. If you're looking to just nut and bolt parts to it then get a land rover as they're easy to get parts for.

Discoverys are good road cars but they have a big **** offroad and the height of the body can make them wallow. Defenders are far from comfortable but the body is practical for offroad. It's up to your taste!


Thanks very much for your reply Smile

I'm thinking that maybe a Defender would be the most cost-effective way forward and with either 33's or if not too difficult/costly, 35's.

What would you recommend engine-wise if the TDi's are a bit weak?

Thanks again

Cheers
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wadsy
Gate Opener


Joined: 04 Oct 2017
Odometer: 8
Location: West Berkshire



PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teamidris wrote:
Yep, a solid £2600 to get landrover axels sorted.

We race on 33” tyres and maul it about on the winch. But, our problem is usually slippy clay.

I’m honestly stuck what to suggest these days? Bob tail mrk1 discoveries with a load of modifications seem to be lasting the long haul? No abs and all that low tech stuff.


Thanks for your reply Smile

I thought a disco bob-tail would do the job, but, due to the fumes, I wouldn't be keen on the fuel tank inside the vehicle, unless it could go elsewhere?

Cheers
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cynic-al
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Odometer: 5970
Location: scunthorpe


1989 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends what your willing to do with it. The TDis are good engines for farmers / work vehicles but I always found them a bit weak for hill climbing etc. It's ok if you've got grip as the gearing is there but if your struggling for grip I've always found they struggle to spin the wheels up. You end up with that dilemma where they haven't got the power to take you up in second as you fall off the bottom of the turbo but you can't get the wheel speed in first to get you up either. The up side is they're very common, parts are cheap and easy to get (although good 200tdi are getting hard to find) and they will get you around a site and on the road out of the box.

The V8s are poor performers for their fuel consumption and won't get you down the road much quicker than a tdi but coupled to an auto box will give you much better workable range offroad. They're awful in water so you have to be prepared to do a fair bit of work if you enjoy swimming. They're also all old and tired and quite expensive to rebuild so it's hard to find a good one.

Popular conversions at the moment are the Lexus petrol 4.0 V8 and Mercedes 3.0 6 cylinder diesel. I've also heard of conversion kits for the 3.2 5 cylinder ford diesel. I have no experience of any of these engines and more power = more broken axles so it all snowballs if your not careful.

If a Defender is what you want and you want an all rounder rather than an out and out offroader then either try find TDi (be careful of discovery conversions as the engines can be subtly different, not worse just different) or if your happy with electrics TD5s are becoming affordable. If you enjoy spannering then consider a conversion but I would only do it if your happy to do the work.

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wadsy
Gate Opener


Joined: 04 Oct 2017
Odometer: 8
Location: West Berkshire



PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much for your reply Re: engines, interesting stuff Smile

I think the Merc diesel sounds good; any idea how such an engine swap from a TDi would impact on insurance?

Cheers
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cynic-al
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Odometer: 5970
Location: scunthorpe


1989 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry no idea.
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teamidris
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Odometer: 3323
Location: Staffordshire UK



PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would add that it might be worth going up to a G waggon. They appear to be a landrover with all the mods fitted as standard? Underneath it looks like a beefed up landrover chassis.
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cynic-al
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Odometer: 5970
Location: scunthorpe


1989 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience of G-wagons is they are very strong and very well built with stock diff locks etc. However they're very heavy and seem to be a bit under powered so it can leave you a bit stuck sometimes. They're also very expensive to buy and there aren't as many bolt on bits so you have to be prepared to invent things yourself. I would love one as an allrounder but not as a pure offroader so it depends what you want it for the most Smile
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mike328
Articulating


Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Odometer: 760
Location: Suffolk!



PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MY experience of G-wagons is basically nothing. But i still vote that you buy one. I have always wanted one but never had the guts to stray out of my comfort zone! Let us know how you get on... Smile
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The deep meaning behind Tetris: If you try to fit in you disappear.
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wadsy
Gate Opener


Joined: 04 Oct 2017
Odometer: 8
Location: West Berkshire



PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies Smile

I'd considered the G-wagon, but as said above; expensive to buy and, like a Landcruiser or Patrol mods aren't as readily available ...it's looking like due to the cost and availability of parts/mods that the defender is probably going to be the way forward.

I'll be test-driving a mate's one this w/e at a local pay and play! Smile

Cheers
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DAN AT ADRIAN FLUX
Gate Opener


Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Odometer: 31




PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wadsy wrote:
Thanks very much for your reply Re: engines, interesting stuff Smile

I think the Merc diesel sounds good; any idea how such an engine swap from a TDi would impact on insurance?

Cheers

Hi,
If you need any help with insurance at all then please feel free to drop me a line.
Regards,
Dan.
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