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What is Bio Diesel?

 
 
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mattsccm
Just got MTs


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Odometer: 421




PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:22 pm    Post subject: What is Bio Diesel? Reply with quote

Prompted by some web searching for the stuff nearby, finding the company in Gloucester as mentioned below and feeling please then reading the thread below, I am wonder how I tell what i am getting.
I assume that something sold as bio diesel by a big name at a big statin at a big price is the real, super deluxe stuff and at the other end , me stuffing SVO from Tescos is the other end of the extreme but what is in between. Eg the chaps in the other thread are selling 200 litres for 200 quid. Their website is fairly helpful but also non committal (fair enough I suppose) . How do I find out what i need or what will do. I run a 2.8 Isuzu in my 110 which runs great on 25% SVO at this time of year. Price is making it pointless especially at the rates above. is it likely or possible that the Gloucester mob are pushing out refined/filtered used oil with no added chemicals to make real bio? Is that viable as a fuel at a high percentage?
Answers using very short words please?
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Nathaniel
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 13 May 2003
Odometer: 17901
Location: North, North Yorkshire


1979 Suzuki LJ

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Bio Diesel is a fuel made from Either Vegetable oil of Tallow (animal fats)
It is known as fatty acid methyl esters (FAME)

The finished Product should meet EN14214 - ask them what standard it meets!

FAME is made by reacting the oil with a Methoxide mixture, in a process called transesterification, basically it breaks down the long chain triglycerides of the oil down to monoglycerides, making it thinner, pretty much the same thickness as pump diesel.

Ask the supplier if you can do a test or if they will show you a test for their BIO, if they have a good product they will be more than pleased to show you.

An easy method of testing is to put 1 part oil and 1 part water into a 500ml drinks bottle, give it a damn good shake and leave it to settle.

once it is settled with the water on the bottom and the BIO on top the water should be pretty clear, if its cloudy or there are more layers this is a fail.

Hope this helps

__________________________________
Nat

If You Open Your Mind Too Much Your Brain Will Fall Out
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crazymac
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Odometer: 2389
Location: Pembrokeshire, West Wales



PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way to find out what you are getting, is to ask the question!

As has already been said, check what it conforms to!

If it is WVO that they have filtered, then £1 a litre is a rip of! and if that is the case then you are looking at mixing the same way you do with SVO (IE what you buy from tescos)

If they are advertising it as Bio Diesel, then it must be or they are misrepresenting the product! which they can be prosecuted for!

IF it is filtered WVO then yes you could use that to make Bio yourself! but that would be more expensive than Diesel from the pump

__________________________________
If I had to explain, you wouldn't understand

http://www.ww4x4.co.uk/index.php
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mattsccm
Just got MTs


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Odometer: 421




PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats what I am wondering? WVO is????? If thats what I am being offered I might as well go SVO although their ??? is much the same price ie a quid a litre as SVO. Would it matter which?
Still really want decent bio which I assume is capable of being used by itself, at leats for most of the year.
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crazymac
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Odometer: 2389
Location: Pembrokeshire, West Wales



PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsccm wrote:
Thats what I am wondering? WVO is????? If thats what I am being offered I might as well go SVO although their ??? is much the same price ie a quid a litre as SVO. Would it matter which?
Still really want decent bio which I assume is capable of being used by itself, at leats for most of the year.


Waste veg oil usage is basically the same as SVO!! you need to mix unless you have a heater in line!

Bio is proper diesel (as long as it meets the standard) and if from a proper supplier you can ask them if they "winterise " it!

__________________________________
If I had to explain, you wouldn't understand

http://www.ww4x4.co.uk/index.php
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mike13401
Gate Opener


Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Odometer: 49
Location: Exeter Devon



PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I beg to differ there.
As long as its not freezing my Iveco 4910 runs on 100% bio or SVO.
Not tried with WVO yet as I am just in process of setting up my filter system.

As long as its not a direct injection vehicle you should not have any probs.

No I dont have a heater.

Mike
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Biodiesel-Bev
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Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Odometer: 1080
Location: Huddersfield



PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the EN14214 Standard. There are many biodiesel producers CLAIMING that their biodiesel meets this standard, but if you ask them if it has actually been tested and certified as meeting the EN standard, then you will probably get a sheepish no from them.

Meeting all the criteria for the EN standard is achievable with biodiesel made from new vegetable oil, but is very difficult if not nigh on impossible to achieve with biodiesel made from waste vegetable oil. This is because of the different oils that make up the wvo (soya, rape, sunflower etc), all these oils have a different iodine value and together it is impossible to attain the same iodine value that was set by the Germans when they made this standard using pure, virgin rapeseed oil. You will not find many producers using virgin rapeseed oil to make their biodiesel, and hence, non of them will have attained the full EN14214 standard. In addition to this, it costs over £1000 PER BATCH to test fuel for the EN standard, it doesn't make it financially viable for producers to test their fuel.

As Nat said you can do a simple test on biodiesel to test for the soap content. Before you add the water you should be able to see clearly through the biodiesel in the bottle, newspaper print should be almost readable through it. The biodiesel / water mix only needs to be shaken for about 10 seconds and then left to settle. The water should settle on the bottom with the biodiesel on top of the water. There should be a clear separation with no 'mayonnaise' type layer between. The biodiesel should go fairly clear, but if it is slightly cloudy that will be due to water suspended in it from your vigorous shaking.

What the biodiesel is made from is also relevant during winter. RME (Rape Methyl Ester) has a lower CFPP (cold filter plugging point), about -8 to -10 degrees, and is therefore more tolerant of colder weather. Biodiesel made from wvo tends to be less tolerant and it is recommended to mix it with normal diesel 60% biodiesel/40% normal diesel when the weather drops to -4 and below. We have experimented with several 'winterisers' with unsatisfactory results.

Bev

__________________________________
Greenworld Biodiesel Ltd, Huddersfield.

www.greenworldbiodiesel.co.uk - enqs@greenworldbiodiesel.co.uk

SNIFF MY EXHAUST - YEP, IT'S BIODIESEL!
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2776ian
Just got MTs


Joined: 01 Oct 2006
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Location: The wide open spaces of South Derbyshire



PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike13401 wrote:
I beg to differ there.
As long as its not freezing my Iveco 4910 runs on 100% bio or SVO.
Not tried with WVO yet as I am just in process of setting up my filter system.

As long as its not a direct injection vehicle you should not have any probs.

No I dont have a heater.

Mike


Mike
You should be aware that WVO will always be of a higher viscosity than SVO, even when really well filtered. The actual viscosity depends on a myriad of things: what type of oil you have, what it's been used to cook, what temperature it was heated to, for how long and how many times.

In northern europe they use SVO in temperatures well below freezing, but they wouldn't get away with using WVO for cold starts. A 2 tank system and a heated filter is the least you'll need.

Ian
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discodoctor
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biodiesel is ok to use down to minus 3.5 c after this temp it starts to thicken (but will turn return to liqued when temp rises)you can use biodiesel below -3.5 but i would mix it with white diesel 50/50 if the temp is going to be low for several days.
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doler
Gate Opener


Joined: 27 Dec 2016
Odometer: 1




PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If thats what I am being offered I might as well go SVO although their ?
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