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Motorway Drivers and untaxed cars

 
 
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Nightbar
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Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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Location: In a state of anticipation...


1999 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:57 am    Post subject: Motorway Drivers and untaxed cars Reply with quote

Start the New Year in style I what I say:

Coming back alng the M42 yesterday I observed how, when overtaking cars, most people will just pull out (just) in front of you then signal...did ytou not look in your mirrors to see what was just about to pass you?

Also, noticed a blue Peugeot, Reg No R615LKV, behaving oddly. Sailing obliviously down the middle lane (when all others were clear) yet braking for the overhead gantries (the ones with the speed camera markings on the road). So I hung back, noted the Reg Number and watched for a while. Yep everytime - so I thinks - somehting suspicious. Sure enough, got home and did a Tax check on the DVLA website...no tax but it had an MOT! I thought all these Big Brother Cameras all over the place and the paperless tax system was supposed to stamp evasion out.
Yes I'mm grumpy as it's the first day back on office and my back hurts Cool

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absquatulation
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 17 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it has no tax disc, then odds are it has no insurance, since the insurance is only valid if the VED (Vehicle Excise duty) is paid.

The Police will catch them, there is no need to set up road blocks to inspect cars, since with ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) the car will ping every time it passes a police car. Then they will be caught when it is convenient to the Police.

They will be done for the insurance, normally the car will be confiscated, they'll get 6 points on a licence they haven't got, then a fine normally equivalent to a weeks wage plus costs and other charges.

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cynic-al
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Odometer: 6021
Location: scunthorpe


1989 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember we don't need a tax disc anymore.

The gantry cameras are only turned on when the speed limit is reduced on a smart motorway although the rules were recently updated to allow them to be turned on at other times at the discretion of the operator.

Someone I know drove for months with no tax, he occasionally got a letter reminding him of that fact but it never went any further.

Where I work we frequently get police visits to look at CCTV. They want to look for cars passing, they know the date, time, make, model and colour that it will pass within a few minutes. There are several ANPR cameras locally which collect and store data of passing vehicles. If someone reports a crime and can give a numberplate of a getaway vehicle etc then they ask each camera locally if that vehicle has passed. They can follow the car if you like, if it looks like it might come past our work they come to look at our cameras to see where it goes at the junction. Of course it falls apart if someone has yanked a numberplate off a parked car thats parked locally and stick it on their own before committing the crime.

I think the problem is all these cameras can produce that much data and traffic of information that they cannot be proactive. Imagine how much computing power would be needed and how much data would be transferred if every time a car anywhere in the country passed a camera and that camera polled the DVLA database. Then any that don't meet the criteria have to have a letter generated, printed and posted, then a reply or none reply processed etc.

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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3232



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

absquatulation wrote:
If it has no tax disc, then odds are it has no insurance, since the insurance is only valid if the VED (Vehicle Excise duty) is paid.




No the insurance is valid even if the VED is NOT paid.

For example a vehicle has to be driven to a MOT station to be tested it has to be insured for that, but a VED can not be issued unless the car has a MOT.

Unless it is in black and white that an insurance company will revoke insurance in the case of VED not being paid then not even a magistrates court can assume "no VED = no Insurance" Wink
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mike328
Articulating


Joined: 10 Dec 2014
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Location: Suffolk!



PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cynic-al wrote:
Someone I know drove for months with no tax, he occasionally got a letter reminding him of that fact but it never went any further.


I did this by accident (honest, I have a few cars). Got stopped on side of road for something else, the police didn't care much just referred me to DVLA, and all they wanted was for me to pay the back dated tax! happy days Smile

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** GED **
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xpajun wrote:
then not even a magistrates court can assume "no VED = no Insurance" Wink


dont bet him on that mate

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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3232



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

** GED ** wrote:
Xpajun wrote:
then not even a magistrates court can assume "no VED = no Insurance" Wink


dont bet him on that mate



True - better to invest in an out of town Lawyer to scare them Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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Nightbar
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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Location: In a state of anticipation...


1999 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gather Public Interest Lawyers would probably take the case...

...bottom feeding scum.

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mike328
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

** GED ** wrote:
Xpajun wrote:
then not even a magistrates court can assume "no VED = no Insurance" Wink


aren't insurance companies supposed to cover at least the third party claim regardless of legal situation because its their responsibility to check your details?

I have heard that they have a solid case to sue you for the money after the fact as you lied to them...but what if it wasn't a lie, and was a genuine mistake?

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RichardD
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Joined: 13 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bearing in mind that Insurance forms a contract, and having read through several of my car insurance policies, it seems that the situation is not so simple.

None of my policies require the vehicle to be taxed or mot'd (just as well for 2 of them - they don't need an MOT), or at least, make no mention of it as a condition. One does mention the car being declared as being in a roadworthy condition if being driven on the road and that may include tax.

I suspect that if you were involved in a collision that was NOT your fault and you had no tax or MOT you would still be covered. For example, you have parked your car on your drive whilst waiting for parts to repair it pending a fresh MOT and tax and someone crashes into it and drives off, I think you would still be covered. Of course, there is no period of grace any more so you'd need to SORN your car to avoid getting an automatic fine.

For the record, for tax exempt vehicles you still have to declare the car 'on the road' using your VED reminder.

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cynic-al
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Joined: 14 Nov 2006
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Location: scunthorpe


1989 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

we have a very old farm loader at work, when the tax disk was still on the go we had to 'tax it', get a tax disk and put it in the window at a cost of £0 Laughing

A friend forgot to tax their car recently which costs £20 a year, they got a £40 fine Laughing

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RichardD
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Joined: 13 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once had to 'tax' the Alldays at a Post Office and the girl behind the counter asked if I wanted 6 or 12 months. She looked rather confused when I asked if it would cost double for 12 months and saw it was zero Laughing Laughing
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Nightbar
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1999 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poor girl - probably had to put it into the till to work it out Cool
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one2killu
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Joined: 09 Jan 2010
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1996 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

back in the day , they used to back date an old disc if it was years out of date . If you was one of those unlucky ones driving with a tax disc 2 - 3 years out of date displayed in your window and mr plod was chasing on your tail , The best thing to have done was eat it 😁

But the world was friendlier back then .
Now electronically there's no escape and I would be very unhappy if a driver hit me and his insurance wouldn't pay out because he wasn't taxed . I think not all insurers will pay unless you have all 3 , its part of there
" Where there's blame you can't claim policy " because insurers don't like paying out .
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w3526602
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Joined: 10 Jun 2002
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Location: Glynneath, South Wales



PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

If I was three times over the drink limit, and ran you over, you would expect my insurers to pay compensation. It's the same with a tax disc.

However ... repairs to your own damage is a civil contract between you and your insurers, and they can afford better lawyers than you. So when they say something voids your insurance, they are being economical with the truth.

Take a look at RTA1988, Section 148. What do you think it is saying?

602

148 Avoidance of certain exceptions to policies or securities.

(1)Where a certificate of insurance or certificate of security has been delivered under section 147 of this Act to the person by whom a policy has been effected or to whom a security has been given, so much of the policy or security as purports to restrict—

(a)the insurance of the persons insured by the policy, or

(b)the operation of the security,

(as the case may be) by reference to any of the matters mentioned in subsection (2) below shall, as respects such liabilities as are required to be covered by a policy under section 145 of this Act, be of no effect.
(2)Those matters are—

(a)the age or physical or mental condition of persons driving the vehicle,

(b)the condition of the vehicle,

(c)the number of persons that the vehicle carries,

(d)the weight or physical characteristics of the goods that the vehicle carries,

(e)the time at which or the areas within which the vehicle is used,

(f)the horsepower or cylinder capacity or value of the vehicle,

(g)the carrying on the vehicle of any particular apparatus, or

(h)the carrying on the vehicle of any particular means of identification other than any means of identification required to be carried by or under [F1the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994].

(3)Nothing in subsection (1) above requires an insurer or the giver of a security to pay any sum in respect of the liability of any person otherwise than in or towards the discharge of that liability.

(4)Any sum paid by an insurer or the giver of a security in or towards the discharge of any liability of any person which is covered by the policy or security by virtue only of subsection (1) above is recoverable by the insurer or giver of the security from that person.

(5)A condition in a policy or security issued or given for the purposes of this Part of this Act providing—

(a)that no liability shall arise under the policy or security, or

(b)that any liability so arising shall cease,

in the event of some specified thing being done or omitted to be done after the happening of the event giving rise to a claim under the policy or security, shall be of no effect in connection with such liabilities as are required to be covered by a policy under section 145 of this Act.

(6)Nothing in subsection (5) above shall be taken to render void any provision in a policy or security requiring the person insured or secured to pay to the insurer or the giver of the security any sums which the latter may have become liable to pay under the policy or security and which have been applied to the satisfaction of the claims of third parties.

(7)Notwithstanding anything in any enactment, a person issuing a policy of insurance under section 145 of this Act shall be liable to indemnify the persons or classes of persons specified in the policy in respect of any liability which the policy purports to cover in the case of those persons or classes of persons.

[/i]

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