FORUM CLASSIFIEDS DIFFLOCK.com Links & Networks
Forum Homepage
Log in
Profile
Search
Private Messages
Forum Members
Register
Classified Ads
Search Ads
Place New Ad
My ads
Place your classified
ads here for FREE
NB: Adverts placed in the general
forum areas will be deleted
Difflock Homepage
Online Shop
Contact Us
FAQ
Calendar
Garage
Facebook
Twitter
Youtube
Advertise With Us - Reach your target market by advertising on the Difflock.com forum.
Click here or call 0845 125 9407


Insa Turbo Special Track mud vs Malesta Kaiman Mud

 
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Difflock Forum Index -> Wheels and Tyres
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
chipmonster
Gate Opener


Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Odometer: 28




PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:25 am    Post subject: Insa Turbo Special Track mud vs Malesta Kaiman Mud Reply with quote

Dear All

Need a mud tyre for 4x4 off road play days (Not to serious stuff just yet but getting confident and pushing further each month).

The two tyres I have narrowed it down to is:

Insa turbo Special Track Mud
Malesta Kaiman Mud

I want them to have the best sidewall protection and best for mud and rocks.

I normally go to cown quarry at Whitworth (near Rochdale)

I have a MK1 Shogun LWB 1991.

Would like your views please before I purchase.

Many thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr Tyre
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Odometer: 4880
Location: Darlington Co Durham



PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You also want to put the Marix Lion into the equation there are only small differences between the 3.What you want to look at is the size of these tyres they maybe marked around 30-31 inches dependent on size but they are going to be coming out at 32-33 inches dependent on size so make sure you have the clearance for them before you buy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chipmonster
Gate Opener


Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Odometer: 28




PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phone 4x4 tyres and asked them what size is the 31 10.5 15 in insa turbo and he said 31.5 inch so no good

Been googling and 235 75 15 should be 28.88 inch (everyone says that insa are 2inch bigger in diameter) therefore in theory they should be 30.88 which means they are perfect. I have 31 inch clearance.

Am I correct that 235 75 15 should be 28.88 inch in diameter?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr Tyre
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Odometer: 4880
Location: Darlington Co Durham



PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The maximum diameter i would expect a NEW 235/75R15 to be is 29.4 inches, so +2 is going to make them 31.4 but that's maximum overall diameter.28.8 is the theoretical diameter of a 235/75R15 but remoulds all depend on what casings they use in the process.

PS NEW 31x10.50R15 are going to be 30.5 to 31.1.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3233



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chipmonster wrote:
Phone 4x4 tyres and asked them what size is the 31 10.5 15 in insa turbo and he said 31.5 inch so no good

Been googling and 235 75 15 should be 28.88 inch (everyone says that insa are 2inch bigger in diameter) therefore in theory they should be 30.88 which means they are perfect. I have 31 inch clearance.

Am I correct that 235 75 15 should be 28.88 inch in diameter?



Remould tyres are measured on carcass size - that is before the tread is applied.

There are a number of different treads that Insa supply from their road tyre through to their extreme special track. The depth of the tread on their special tracks is just under 1" hence the 2" bigger in diameter, however their road tyres are probably about 10mm or less deep only giving a overall +0.7" diameter, whereas the AT/MTs may have 15-20mm depth of tread giving you 1-1.5" extra on the diameter.

So it's a case of which tread you are talking about, not Insa tyres as a whole that give you the actual size over stated size
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website eBay Name
chipmonster
Gate Opener


Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Odometer: 28




PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am planning to buy new tyres not remoulded.

Will the sizing of new tyre fit (235 75 15)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3233



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Insa tyres, along with many other off-road tyres are remoulds. A lot of competition drivers prefer remoulds for their softer compound allowing better grip off-road

Your tyre size is 29 - 10 - 15 about standard size for a Mk1
Non-remoulds will be slightly smaller than this
Remoulds, depending on tread pattern, will be larger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website eBay Name
Mr Tyre
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Odometer: 4880
Location: Darlington Co Durham



PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chipmonster wrote:
I am planning to buy new tyres not remoulded.

Will the sizing of new tyre fit (235 75 15)


If that's you current size then you will have no problem.Early Shoguns had a number of different sizes fitted from the factory,215/80R15 was one of them, there is very little difference in diameter between that size and 235/75R15.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chicken drumstick
Winch Assistant


Joined: 29 May 2012
Odometer: 83
Location: Near MK



PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Insa Turbo Special Track mud vs Malesta Kaiman Mud Reply with quote

chipmonster wrote:


The two tyres I have narrowed it down to is:

Insa turbo Special Track Mud
Malesta Kaiman Mud




chipmonster wrote:
I am planning to buy new tyres not remoulded.

Will the sizing of new tyre fit (235 75 15)


You do realise that both of the tyres you are looking at are remoulds?

If you want non remoulds, then Simex are the original for this tread pattern, although I think they are crossply, not radial.

I believe Silverstone are original and not a remould and also offer a version of the Simex Extreme Trekker tread. Both are a lot more money than the remoulds however.


chipmonster wrote:

Dear All

Need a mud tyre for 4x4 off road play days (Not to serious stuff just yet but getting confident and pushing further each month).


Just as a heads up, for ***** & Prat sites, you really don't need the best of the best of the best. If you get stuck... so what? It's only if you compete in competitions or go USA style wheeling where you really want be able to get home again, that you might need something more specialised. For playing in the mud you only really need something capable.


So I would consider the "bigger" picture in how much road use you plan to do. How important steering lock is, how much risk you want on bashing up the trim and body work and risk of breaking drivetrain components.


It maybe be if you do little road work, or are happy for a 2nd set of rims and to change tyres often. And that you don't care about damage or breaking stuff, then 'extreme' mud terrains are they way to go. But they might not be.


chipmonster wrote:


I want them to have the best sidewall protection and best for mud and rocks.

You are unlikely to achieve all of this. Is there a reason you specifically need additional sidewall protection?

And how much mud vs rocks? What is generally good in the mud, will tend to get torn up and heavily worn on the rocks.



chipmonster wrote:


Would like your views please before I purchase.

Many thanks

Give me some more info and I'll recommend some tyres. I've been fortunate enough to try many different types of tyres and on different terrain.


What I can tell you is, there is no definitive answer. What works well at one place, may not work well elsewhere.

__________________________________
Currently a Landy and Jeep owner....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chipmonster
Gate Opener


Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Odometer: 28




PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I spoke to the supplier today, they said the tyre was remould (I pointed out to them that they did not list this anywhere on the website). Thanks everyone, could of ended up with remould tyres which I don't want.

Now thinking of getting bfg Goodrich mud terrain km2 (they are not remould)

The question is do I put them on 16 inch rims and get 235 85 16

Or do I get 235 75 15 and put them on a 15 inch.

Still thinking and the 16 inch option would cost me an additional 185 pounds (new rims and extra for tyres). Not really sure it's worth the extra investment?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chipmonster
Gate Opener


Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Odometer: 28




PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use my shogun in the winter (presently have winter tyres on it). Use the vehicle for my mountain biking as the mountain bike tracks are usually at various forest and the road to get there are lethal during the winter.

I go off roading once a month (want a spare set for this as I popped 2 winter each time I have been). This is the reason I want good sidewalk protection.

Mud tyres are not very good for icy roads therefore I think I need two sets.

Recommend me some makes and I don't really want remould tyres. New tyres should be fine. Also do I go for 16 inch or 15 inch, not really decided yet

Many thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3233



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BFGs are long lasting tyres for your money - they also have thicker sidewalls so tend to brush off the rocks and debris that rip open the sidewalls of other 'new' tyres...


As a matter of interest why don't you want remoulds?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website eBay Name
chipmonster
Gate Opener


Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Odometer: 28




PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prices of remould tyres are not far off from new tyres and I feel more confident on a new tyre than a remould.

BF Good rich mud terrain 285 85 15 has a maximum load index of 1400kg

238 75 15 has a maximum load index of 900kg

I am assuming the 16 inch tyre is going to be a lot stronger. Is it worth the expense as going for the 16 inch option will cost me an additional 185 on tyres and rims. The real question is it worth the extra money for the 16 inch?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3233



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chipmonster wrote:
Prices of remould tyres are not far off from new tyres and I feel more confident on a new tyre than a remould.




Good reason for that - remoulds, at least the 4x4 ones are made with the sport in mind - when I bought my Insa turbos special tracks they were 60 a corner then competitors found out just how good they are and bought them - go to a trial and you'll find a high percentage of the trucks wearing them and an even higher percentage of class winners wearing them - of course the popularity put the prices up...

Remoulds are just as safe now as premium tyres and probably more so than the cheap end of the premium market - the old days of them falling to bits while you're driving them has long gone. Today you can confidently buy the tyre to get you where you want to go (or be) whether it's a premium like BFG or a remould like Insa.

A tyre load index of 900kg works out at 3.6 tonnes for the vehicle - you're looking at about 2.2kg for a SWB tin top Mk1.

The only reason to up the rim size is to get the tyre you want (like my Insas were only available in 16" when I got them) - if you want a skinny tyre go for the 16" if you're happy with a fatter tyre then stick with the 15"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website eBay Name
Mr Tyre
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Odometer: 4880
Location: Darlington Co Durham



PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

235/75R15 equates to 235/70R16, i have seen you have written down 235/85R16 in other postings, these won't fit a standard ride height Shogun 1.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chicken drumstick
Winch Assistant


Joined: 29 May 2012
Odometer: 83
Location: Near MK



PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chipmonster wrote:

When I spoke to the supplier today, they said the tyre was remould (I pointed out to them that they did not list this anywhere on the website). Thanks everyone, could of ended up with remould tyres which I don't want.

Most 'interesting' tread patterns will be remoulds tbh. Unless you want to spend maybe 280-400 a tyre.

For off road use, you really shouldn't be put off by remoulds. I'm assuming you are making some assumptions on why you don't want them. These might be valid, but it's my experience that mostly they aren't and it's just a complete lack of understanding.

I say this, as it's well worth looking at all options properly.

chipmonster wrote:

Now thinking of getting bfg Goodrich mud terrain km2 (they are not remould)

Remoulds generally start around the 70-110 a corner. New tyres of the same size will be more like 100-180 a tyre. BGF can be particularly pricey. So it might cost you an extra 120-250 all in.

Also I think you need to really decide on what type of tyre tread you want. There is a world of difference from an Extreme Trekker copy (the Insa Turbo Special Tracs) vs a BFG MT.

It's like comparing an Elise to an F1 car for track use.


chipmonster wrote:

I go off roading once a month (want a spare set for this as I popped 2 winter each time I have been). This is the reason I want good sidewalk protection.

Curious but how? Seems like there might be more to it, even if you are running car spec winter tyres.

chipmonster wrote:

Use my shogun in the winter (presently have winter tyres on it). Use the vehicle for my mountain biking as the mountain bike tracks are usually at various forest and the road to get there are lethal during the winter.


Mud tyres are not very good for icy roads therefore I think I need two sets.

You said Rochdale, I really can't see the roads being hugely worse there than most other parts of the UK, even if you are going into the Peaks.

A good set of MT's with plenty of sipes should be more than upto the task tbh. Although winter tyres will always offer the best traction on icy tarmac.



chipmonster wrote:

The question is do I put them on 16 inch rims and get 235 85 16

Or do I get 235 75 15 and put them on a 15 inch.

Still thinking and the 16 inch option would cost me an additional 185 pounds (new rims and extra for tyres). Not really sure it's worth the extra investment?

This really depends on what you want to achieve. I don't know much about your vehicle tbh. But I can tell you there is a reasonable size difference between these two sizes.

For the record, the profile, in this case 85 and 75, is a percentage of the width in mm.

So one tyre has a profile which is 75% of 235mm and the other 85% of 235mm. This means there is quite a big difference in profile alone. The fact you are also comparing 15 and 16" rim sizes means an even bigger difference.

A 235/75R15 = 28.8"
while a 235/85R16 = 31.7"

That's pretty much a 3" difference.

So the question is, will circa 32" tall tyres fit without rubbing, trimming or needing a lift?

Is the drivetrain ok with such a size tyre and is the stock gearing ok with it? The taller tyre will affect performance and acceleration and may impact mpg.

As I say, I'm not familiar with your vehicle, so it may be fine.

chipmonster wrote:

Recommend me some makes and I don't really want remould tyres. New tyres should be fine. Also do I go for 16 inch or 15 inch, not really decided yet
Many thanks


Most MT tyres should be more than up to the job tbh, but as said, I'd go for one with sipes in. I'm still not sure what actual use you have and how you have been popping tyres.

I really doubt you need anything extreme tbh. So I would say it is well worth looking at things like the Kingpin Mud Tracker or Amazon.

You can get either for about 67 a tyre!!!
http://www.4x4tyres.info/2358516-kingpin-mud-tr...-mud-terrain-tyre
http://www.4x4tyres.info/2357515-kingpin-techni...etread---tyre105s

They are remoulds and they don't have sipes, but they are both proven MT tread patterns, used and abused by many. And at this price you have to take them seriously.


As for new tyres. I like the look of the Federal Couragia MT
http://tyresdirectuk.co.uk/products/235-75r15-1...eral-couragia-m-t

It has mild siping and a good tread pattern.


The Maxxis MT762 and 764 also are worth considering.
http://tyresdirectuk.co.uk/products/235-75r15-1...is-bighorn-mt-764


I don't know much about these, but they look quite nice. The new General Grabber MT
http://tyresdirectuk.co.uk/products/235-75r15-1...eneral-grabber-mt

But I think the Maxxis and Federal both look like better tyres and General is the most pricey of the three. The Federal is substantially cheaper!


If you want to go BFG, tbh I'd actually (and unusually for me) recommend their AT. Not the old one, you want the new "All-Terrain T/A KO2".

Lots of sipes and Winter Tyre rated too.
http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire-selector/ca...-ko2/tire-details

Only issue is, I'm not sure how easy they are to get in the UK, so you'll have to see if you can find them.

__________________________________
Currently a Landy and Jeep owner....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chipmonster
Gate Opener


Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Odometer: 28




PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Decided to go for the 15 inch as I have spare alloys.

After reading your replies, I like the look of these (malesta Kaiman)

https://www.4x4tyres.co.uk/235-75-15-malatesta-k...-s_m2357515kaiman

235 75 15

Would these fit on a MK1 shogun LWB (I think I have 31" clearance) and according to tyre calculator (new tyres are 28.88 + 2" =30.88, perfect).

Any bigger I am screwed!

These look value for money but only 1 in stock (I need 4)

http://www.4x4tyres.info/23575r15-fedima-sirocc...ain-retread--tyre

What do you think?


Last edited by chipmonster on Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3233



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chipmonster wrote:
After reading your replies, I like the look of these (malesta Kaiman)

https://www.4x4tyres.co.uk/235-75-15-malatesta-k...-s_m2357515kaiman

235 75 15

Would these fit on a MK1 shogun LWB (I think I have 31" clearance) and according to tyre calculator (new tyres are 28.88 + 2" =30.88, perfect).

Any bigger I am screwed!



So you decided to go for a remould then...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website eBay Name
chipmonster
Gate Opener


Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Odometer: 28




PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes going for a remould.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mike328
Articulating


Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Odometer: 793
Location: Suffolk!



PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chipmonster wrote:
Yes going for a remould.


Good choice, but because they tend to have thicker sidewalls in my experience (something that you want If understand correctly) run them at a lower pressure off road to get the most out of them. I had sh*tty kingpin remoulds and ran them at about 8/10psi off road to make them work....

__________________________________
Snap On: Turning drawers into status symbols since 1920.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chicken drumstick
Winch Assistant


Joined: 29 May 2012
Odometer: 83
Location: Near MK



PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chipmonster wrote:
Decided to go for the 15 inch as I have spare alloys.

After reading your replies, I like the look of these (malesta Kaiman)

https://www.4x4tyres.co.uk/235-75-15-malatesta-k...-s_m2357515kaiman

235 75 15

Would these fit on a MK1 shogun LWB (I think I have 31" clearance) and according to tyre calculator (new tyres are 28.88 + 2" =30.88, perfect).

Any bigger I am screwed!

These look value for money but only 1 in stock (I need 4)

http://www.4x4tyres.info/23575r15-fedima-sirocc...ain-retread--tyre

What do you think?


Well as I said earlier, the Simex Extreme Trekker copies are "extreme" tyres. If you are going to be doing this sort of thing:



Then they are very good. If your off roading is milder and involves more road use, then a tread pattern like this:




https://www.4x4tyres.co.uk/235-75-15-malatesta-k...q-s_m2357515kobra

Or even this:



https://www.4x4tyres.co.uk/235-75-15-insa-turbo-...05q_0302071490008

Are going to be far better.

__________________________________
Currently a Landy and Jeep owner....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chipmonster
Gate Opener


Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Odometer: 28




PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="chicken drumstick"]
chipmonster wrote:
Decided to go for the 15 inch as I have spare alloys.

After reading your replies, I like the look of these (malesta Kaiman)

https://www.4x4tyres.co.uk/235-75-15-malatesta-k...-s_m2357515kaiman

235 75 15

Would these fit on a MK1 shogun LWB (I think I have 31" clearance) and according to tyre calculator (new tyres are 28.88 + 2" =30.88, perfect).

Any bigger I am screwed!

These look value for money but only 1 in stock (I need 4)

http://www.4x4tyres.info/23575r15-fedima-sirocc...ain-retread--tyre

What do you think?


Well as I said earlier, the Simex Extreme Trekker copies are "extreme" tyres. If you are going to be doing this sort of thing:

Yes definitely doing the above stuff, muddy tracks. Thinking of going to Bradford Parkwood on the 19th and trying the red route.

Will the Malesta Kaiman do (As I am going to have them dedicated to offroading, and use my BFG Winter Slalom for the road use)

Many thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Difflock Forum Index -> Wheels and Tyres All times are GMT - 12 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum
Facebook

Specialist Tools

Service Kits

Evo Oils

Oil Safe

Join our mailing list for upcoming events, special offers, discount coupons and expert advice on the latest 4x4 products!

* indicates required





    
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group