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Turbo vitara
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cynic-al wrote:
Can't wait to see what you think, atleast your still keeping a light engine. Personally I'm not a huge fan of turbos as your for ever trying to keep in the rev range but I can't wait to see what you think!


Tell me about it! My patrol is gutless until the turbo kicks in.
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Undiplomatic
Just got MTs


Joined: 10 May 2010
Odometer: 483




PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichMayo, you know that if you increase engine torque then this effectively lowers your gear ratio? So fitting the turbo reduces needs for gear ratio mods, assuming that the toque increase is throughout the range.

With the live axle conversion, isn't the independent front suspension a lot to do with why the Vitara handles much better on the road than solid axled 4x4's? Personally if I wanted an all out off road vehicle with solid axles I would go for a Sammy. The Vit to me is a car that's great on the road and capable off road, but it's not a full off road machine because of the independent front suspension. That's why I never fitted a diesel engine, avoid body lift, etc.

With solid front axle conversion, I'd also be worried about the steering then being out of geometry, because the SJ axle that most people use is much more narrow, you need big spacers or offset wheels, and then you loose your centre point steering, which makes the road behaviour much worse.

Ok, someone with more knowledge is probably going to come along and correct me, but that's how I see it Smile
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Undiplomatic
Just got MTs


Joined: 10 May 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sammy,

So is the kit bolt in apart from having to do a new exhaust? And those silicone seals? Or were there other complications?

Do you know what vehicle the compressor came from or is it a generic/aftermarket one?
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Undiplomatic wrote:
RichMayo, you know that if you increase engine torque then this effectively lowers your gear ratio? So fitting the turbo reduces needs for gear ratio mods, assuming that the toque increase is throughout the range.

Pretty much what I'm saying. I'm running on 31" tires on 5.125 diffs, and in my opinion with the stock gearbox/transfer case and engine that's pretty much your limit for useable gearing on/off road. Tbh I think it's slightly over the limit. So the nice thing about the Sammy axles is you can swap your vitara diffs over... but if you wanted to use something a bit more substantial you don't really get the options of diffs @ 5.125... (although googling i see there are some options but it starts getting kinda pricey) and in likelihood if you're going more substantial you're probably going that route in order to run some bigger sized tires reliably. So I'm interested to see if strapping a turbo to the stock engine gives enough grunt to do a non-Sammy axle swap - without then having to also swap out the engine and or transfer case - which from what I can tell (guna regret saying this) is way more hassle than the turbo approach.

Undiplomatic wrote:

With the live axle conversion, isn't the independent front suspension a lot to do with why the Vitara handles much better on the road than solid axled 4x4's? Personally if I wanted an all out off road vehicle with solid axles I would go for a Sammy. The Vit to me is a car that's great on the road and capable off road, but it's not a full off road machine because of the independent front suspension. That's why I never fitted a diesel engine, avoid body lift, etc.

By the time you've added a suspension lift I'm not convinced there's a lot in it unless something is setup wrong (bearing in mind my vit is lifted). My patrol is way nicer to drive on the road than my Vit - but i don't go anywhere fast in either of them - and specially don't push it on corners like might do in a sporty car Wink
You could go the Sammy route - and i asked some questions about that on here a while ago... but when you look at it - the work that you have to do to make a Sammy an "all out off road vehicle" isn't a million miles off the work you have to do to a vit in the other direction. Plenty of people seem to put a vit engine in, coil conversions, axle mods. Not saying you have to but seems a lot of people doing this kinda things. Being very optimisitic (and i realize this), i am wondering if you can add turbo kit (enhancing what is there), and then focus on the axle swap with greater options.

Undiplomatic wrote:

With solid front axle conversion, I'd also be worried about the steering then being out of geometry, because the SJ axle that most people use is much more narrow, you need big spacers or offset wheels, and then you loose your centre point steering, which makes the road behaviour much worse.

Yeah, gotta do it right. I don't really like the fact you need to add spacers, and looking at a few builds using these axles, due to the them being fairly narrow there always seems to be compromises in where the springs sit.

Anywho, first things first... try the turbo! Going to message the seller later and ask what the recommended exhaust setup is. Reckon I ordered a week ago... counting the days already :S

The things i was debating trying assuming everything goes fine was going to be put my 4.88 diff back in the rear axle - to see how well it pulls with that.... and if I'm feeling really enthusiastic borrow some 33" tyres and see how that behaves on those diffs.

Sammy what mods has your vit got?
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sammy9212
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Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Odometer: 58
Location: Farnborough



PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Undiplomatic wrote:
Sammy,

So is the kit bolt in apart from having to do a new exhaust? And those silicone seals? Or were there other complications?

Do you know what vehicle the compressor came from or is it a generic/aftermarket one?


The kit is fairly comprehensive but as there are some differences between the uk vits and the us sidekicks(?) there are some work around a that need to be done, such as the silicone reducer you see on page one. There is another, I suppose "bodge" I have yet to sort out. And that is the airbox and maf. I had to do some trickery to get it to work.



So here is how I did it just to make it work for now. We have an old cone filter I found in the shed that happens to fit. Then the maf, then the old intake pipe, and where the resonator box was I have pushed in an old break piston that was the same size and jubilee clipped round that. then to connect to the silicone pipe that was supplied, this was where I got stuck, until I realised that the silicone will fit inside the old intake pipe, so I found a metal insert that was again(luckily) some how the same diameter as the inside of the silicone pipe, popped it in secured it up. I'm looking into buying some 90s 45s and straights so I can do this properly and will feel better about it. If either of you get there before me please let me know what's needed 😂.

As for what mods my vit has, not much really; 2.5 inch suspension lift with diffdrop brackets, 2inch body lift, tubular front bumper, box section rear bumper, diff breathers, massive oversized arches, and a set of 31 inch discovery stt's. I haven't been off roading since fitting the kit yet as I've been busy but as soon as I do I'll let you know how it is.
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Undiplomatic
Just got MTs


Joined: 10 May 2010
Odometer: 483




PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich, if you took a 16v Vitara, without body lift and with 29" tyres, I GUARANTEE it will corner much better that your Patrol!

The body lift and 31" tyres totally change the feel of a Vitara.
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Undiplomatic
Just got MTs


Joined: 10 May 2010
Odometer: 483




PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also does anyone know what the turbo charger on the DWR kit is from? Ie what car model have they pinched it from?
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers. Very similar setup to my vit then. I've already played the intake chopping up game on mine...



... so I'm fully expecting to have to redo all of that- but I'm not too bothered as it's a bit of a state right now. I'll probably order up some proper hoses once I know what I need as there's way to many joins in my current setup for my liking.

Where did your battery end up?
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sammy9212
Winch Assistant


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Odometer: 58
Location: Farnborough



PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Undiplomatic wrote:
Also does anyone know what the turbo charger on the DWR kit is from? Ie what car model have they pinched it from?


Turbo is a "Borg K03" came on mk4 SPAM FYI, seat Leon cupra, passats. German stuff really Razz

Mmmm rich your engine/intake stuff looks a lot different to mine, is the a afm rather than a maf? If so it may me easier for you! And my battery is now in the boot as I had no where else for it Razz
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Undiplomatic wrote:
Rich, if you took a 16v Vitara, without body lift and with 29" tyres, I GUARANTEE it will corner much better that your Patrol!

The body lift and 31" tyres totally change the feel of a Vitara.


Okay... well I'm not sure we should test that really should we... not sure what your point is... that 29" and no body lift is better because it's slightly more biased to road use and throwing around corners? Horses for courses bud. I was trying to say, personally, live axles on the patrol doesn't ruin the on road experience for me - it might do if I tried to hammer it everywhere.
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sammy9212 wrote:

Turbo is a "Borg K03" came on mk4 SPAM FYI, seat Leon cupra, passats. German stuff really Razz


Yeah it seems pretty fitting as I've financed this by sale of my Octavia RS Mk1... which I believe was a K03S... kinda feel like I've missed a trick here somewhere... but I didn't see this thread until the car had gone.

sammy9212 wrote:

Mmmm rich your engine/intake stuff looks a lot different to mine, is the a afm rather than a maf? If so it may me easier for you! And my battery is now in the boot as I had no where else for it Razz



I thought it was a MAF tbh but you're right they do look different. Would it matter? Wouldn't be the first time mine has something a bit different about (waverly washer wheel bearing experience). What is it about your setup that made it harder?

Mine pre messing...



Yours pre turbo...

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sammy9212
Winch Assistant


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Odometer: 58
Location: Farnborough



PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny you said that as my previous car was a seat Leon cupra with a ko3s in it!

Shouldn't matter as your piping looks smaller and more similar to the us set ups so might all fit correctly, i.e no reducers needed!

(I said might don't crucify me if it doesn't Very Happy)
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol - great minds Wink Yeah my other half was worried when I said I've found something to replace the skoda with... she thought it would be another car and was relieved when I just said it was a turbo kit. Although she then had a rant at me about not crashing it and something about handling...

Heh - don't worry I'm expecting the worst anyway that way I can only be impressed. That universal filter I fitted came with a load of adapters that might see some use. Debating swapping it for a cone at the top of the snorkel though with a "flower pot" on it... friends got a similar setup on his 1.6 sportrak (filter not the turbo) and it really makes a "smile on your face sound". Free's up a little space in the bay too.

Also it might make sense if it is more similar to the US setups as I was told something similar by Suzuki garage when I was trying to figure out why I have strange waverley spring washers in my front bearing assemblies.
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sammy9212
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Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Odometer: 58
Location: Farnborough



PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichMayo wrote:
Lol - great minds Wink Yeah my other half was worried when I said I've found something to replace the skoda with... she thought it would be another car and was relieved when I just said it was a turbo kit. Although she then had a rant at me about not crashing it and something about handling...

Heh - don't worry I'm expecting the worst anyway that way I can only be impressed. That universal filter I fitted came with a load of adapters that might see some use. Debating swapping it for a cone at the top of the snorkel though with a "flower pot" on it... friends got a similar setup on his 1.6 sportrak (filter not the turbo) and it really makes a "smile on your face sound". Free's up a little space in the bay too.

Also it might make sense if it is more similar to the US setups as I was told something similar by Suzuki garage when I was trying to figure out why I have strange waverley spring washers in my front bearing assemblies.


That's exactly what happened with my better half! And I've been thinking about what to do with the 10 disco snorkel I aquired recently and that sounds like a fantastic idea!
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah it does sound nice - but has a habit of falling off Wink came off at the weekend when we were laning ... and this time we caught it on video... luckily it didn't happen in the middle of a ford.

Asked DWR about exhaust setup...

"I typically recommend 2.25-2.5" exhaust. Ditch the cat and it'll likely be a-ok"

Not sure about the latter at MOT time.
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sammy9212
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could always build the exhaust so you can add the cat in when it comes time for the mot?
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sammy9212
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello! I forgot to update this with my news! Last weekend I finally got round to changing the fuel filter...



That'll be why it was running to badly then Razz looks like it's never been done!

Unfortunately the fuel lines where a bit... Shall we say brittle? The banjos that go to the filter both split. So I've ordered new ones which arrived yesterday and will be changed this weekend! The good news is before I noticed it was leaking I checked the AFR gauge and it's already running richer Very Happy
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah - mine looks a bit like that too :S ... i've got a new one sitting around somewhere that i'll look to putting on with the kit then.

My kit was dispatched earlier this week. Might need some help with the instructions when it comes to fitting...
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sammy9212
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you got it yet then rich? 😁 When it does arrive open up the fuel pressure regulator, as I had a bit of trouble with mine. The piston and one plate was missing, the top diaphragm was also leaking. Unfortunately I had no luck getting a replacement from the company "jdm sport" as the only way I could find to contact them was Facebook and they now ignore me... Fortunately my neighbour is amazing. He works for quinetic so he was able to make all the missing parts and pressure test it so now it's a 14:1 instead of 10:1. That should make sure I'm not running lean 😂
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
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1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's arrived. I'll let you know how I do when I get chance to start it. Have you got any pics of where you've mount the fpr?
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sammy9212
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally forgot about this thread! With the fixed FPR it's running richer... Still lean though, which leads me to the conclusion that the maf and ecu are holding it back as they arnt seeing the correct amount of air that's going in... So I'm not really sure where to go from here... Any suggestions?
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mike328
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Joined: 10 Dec 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

are you running out of injector size/fuel pressure?
__________________________________
Snap On: Turning drawers into status symbols since 1920.
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sammy9212
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not really sure, speaking to some people in the US, they say all the fueling system is good up until about 180bhp, which would be something like 14/15 psi of boost, which I'm no where near! Unless they have different pumps/ injectors I wouldn't think it'd be that.
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still not got my kit on. Ended up spending a lot of time repairing a friends truck before xmas so didn't get chance to down there and work on my own. Hoping to get to it now everything has quietened down a bit.
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rory-ray
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Joined: 15 Nov 2012
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1998 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you live in yate Bristol mate?


Would like to have a nosey at this when you got it on

__________________________________
1998 Vitara Hardtop Currently In Pieces In The Garage.
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yate. No problem.
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manifold and down pipe off the vehicle. Had a test fit the other day.

Next job is to pull the sump off so I can put the oil drain in. Looks like front axle housing needs to come off the vehicle so I can get access to the bolts and also remove the sump. Has anyone managed to get if off without removing the front axle housing? I've got drop brackets on it.
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sammy9212
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Joined: 18 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried leaving the axle on... Didn't work 😂It needs to be removed, or at least undone and moved out the way unfortunately!
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RichMayo
Just got MTs


Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Odometer: 413
Location: Yate


1997 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries - pretty well practiced at that anyway Wink

Have you got any pics of where you've hooked in oil, coolant and the FPR?
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sammy9212
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Joined: 18 Jun 2012
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Location: Farnborough



PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did have photos but I seem to have lost them all.....

Oil is from the oil pressure sensor, which is on the exhaust side of the engine above the oil filter(look for a cable with a connector on the end, pull this off and undo the sensor, wind in the t piece and connect hose to turbo)

Coolant, wasss.... Somewhere between the valve cover, inlet manifold and throttle body, not very helpful I know, I'm working on it tomorrow so I'll try and get a pic

Fpr, for the vacuum line I t-d into the line between the turbo and wastegate. Fuel is the return line under the intake manifold

I hope this has helped! If not let me know and I'll try and get some pics for you.
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