here`s one to ponder.....

** GED ** · Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:54 pm Post subject: here`s one to ponder.....

if an imam took the word of Allah and changed it, by deliberately adding a passage, condition or words, he would be decried as a hate preacher.

if a catholic priest did the same, what do we call them?

gadgetboy · Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 7:15 pm Post subject:

Dan Brown

mike328 · Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:09 pm Post subject:

** GED ** · Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:53 pm Post subject:

sorry, i must have shrunk as that went right over my head Shocked

mike328 · Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:15 am Post subject:

Dan Brown abused various religious and spiritual texts, ideas and theory's to create his completely fictional books.. and has sold millions of them! probably not as many copies as the bible though....

teamidris · Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:27 am Post subject:

Yep, the bible has been pretty popular. Even the badly translated ones were printed in huge numbers.

** GED ** · Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:55 am Post subject:

right, im a Pratchett man myself.... Confused

no, im talking factually here.

if people choose to do it for blatantly fictional purposes thats one thing.

but for a man of the cloth to twist the words of the diety they are supposed to represent?

we, as the sheep should be free to interpret the holy texts any way we choose, but should we expect the church to be of one voice?

dont suppose we have any catholic lay ministers here?

gadgetboy · Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:36 am Post subject:

I'm not a catholic lay minister nor even catholic however my father was a Church of Ireland Archdeacon and a published biblical scholar and theologian and I had this discussion with him several times.

The crux of the matter is this. If the bible (Torah, Qur'an or any text of which the claim is made) is the word of god it is immutable, you take it as is and you can't cherry pick it. If it is the word of man then you can do what you like with it - it's just a series of words on a page and is effectively a badly written, contradictory piece of fiction. It's either the word of god or it isn't.

The problem for religions and scholars is this. The <insert religious text here> is a translation, no one has the original text and therefore what we have is the word and interpretation of man and nothing to do with god in the first place. It is therefore largely bollóx.

Please note I did not and do not capitalise the word god deliberately. There is no omnipresent, omnipotent, mal/benevolent super-being.

** GED ** · Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:07 pm Post subject:

thatll do for me...

for the purposes of this exercise, let all agree to pretend that christ/god/whoever exists.....

im about to have a bit of a ding dong with an archbishop over two priests...

the short version is that they are refusing to baptise a child catholic as the father is not...

they have put a condition on the baptism saying they will baptise the child only AFTER the father converts

Luke 18:16 says

But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

so by my reckoning, the priests are also going against the word of jesus by forbidding them entry to gods kingdom by putting conditions on it....

BUT

this is written into cannon law saying that they can do this....

so, a man has written into church law that a priest can put a condition on receiving christs love, despite teaching us for over two thousand years that christs love is unconditional..

so, the church has condoned one of its own changing the words of christ...

it has rather Hissed me off to say the least....

gadgetboy · Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:24 pm Post subject:

Well my personal view is that the child should choose whether it wants to be catholic when it's good and ready and not before.

Forcing a religion on a child that has no understanding of such things is presumptuous at best.

** GED ** · Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:27 pm Post subject:

oh dont worry, the parents have had it up and down the banks off me for more than just that reason.

their inability to logically work through their problem is just the start...

mikGV · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:52 am Post subject:

My first wife was a catholic, I am not, My three children were all baptised at the local catholic church, no problem

** GED ** · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:57 pm Post subject:

hi mike.

as far as i can see, its down to the priest.

was yours young or old?, because im finding that its the older priests that enforce this rule.

gadgetboy · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:15 pm Post subject:

The priest's stance contravenes the European Human Rights Act which guarantees religious freedom.

Tell him to stick that in his pipe and smoke it.

** GED ** · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:42 pm Post subject:

thanks

Nightbar · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:37 pm Post subject:

Interesting point.

I choose the path of peace with the MiL and allowed them to be baptised on the left foot with the proviso that they could and would be able to choose for themselves later.

vtrax · Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:44 am Post subject:

Should the good lord not lead the family through this, their darkest hour?

Or have you, GED, been sent do do his bidding?

Shocked

RichardD · Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:44 am Post subject:

Can't be of any help with the Christian religious texts for obvious reasons but the Old Testament, Chumash, 5 Books of Moses, is the collected written version of the oral history of the world and the Jewish people including the various, conflicting, petulant and irrational words of God

There has been precious little change in Judaism in the last 500 years not because the Torah is the word of God (it isn't) it because 'modern' Rabbis believe there no Jewish scholars of sufficient greatness to make any further interpetation of the Law.

** GED ** · Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:34 am Post subject:

duke · Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:59 pm Post subject:

I remember when ged was god.

But that was before his downfall.

Angel

** GED ** · Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:18 pm Post subject:

which one?

the one where richard banned me, or the one where richard had me banned or the one where he banned me again or the one where.........

which one mate? Twisted Evil

jojo · Mud Obsessed Joined: 11 Aug 2007 Odometer: 5422

( Gray ) · Articulating Joined: 15 Apr 2012 Odometer: 597

duke · Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:34 pm Post subject:

Lemmy on Difflock Cool

duke · Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:39 pm Post subject:

** GED ** · Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:35 pm Post subject:

bless you my son......

duke · Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:39 pm Post subject:

Thought you were taller Laughing

Neil Chowney · Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:47 pm Post subject:

s'funny, I always thought the victor in 'Games of Thrones' would be well... a bit more photogenic........ Cool

** GED ** · Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:50 pm Post subject:

Neil Chowney · Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:53 pm Post subject:

Yes it does fall flat on it's face if you haven't seen it.

Basically they are all fighting for control of the iron throne......

...... yes I know that ones wood but that's not my fault.