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RichMayo Just got MTs
Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Odometer: 413 Location: Yate
1997 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:05 pm Post subject: to Patrol or to GVit - that's the question...
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So... I've got a dilemma... and thought I'd ask for some opinions. It's essentially a what do I do next question I'm hopefully going to have access to a decent size garage/workspace to start a new project (and remain dry!) soon. Am going to list what I've got first because I
think it gives some context (apologies for lengthy post).
My vitara has to this point been my main toy. It's got...
- 1.6 16v
- 31" BFG's (including a spare)
- steel axle (5.125 diffs)
- calmini suspension/body lift 3"/3"
- twin batteries
- snorkel + air inlet re-work to allow batteries + breathers to snorkel
- home made domex steel bumpers
- plenty of bash/skid plate from front bumper back to beyond transfer case
- warrior 9500 winch at front
- stub shaft at front mod (same drive shaft each side)
- rear seats out and selection of ammo crates bolted in
- custom stainless steel exhaust
- i carry spare front hub assemblies (in theory makes replacing a bearing out and about do-able)
- recent spendy/effort items includes: brakes(disks/pads/calipers/shoes/cylinders),starter motor,batteries
I've put quite a bit of effort in, and spent quite a few pennies on it. I'm quite attached and it's taught me alot. It's pretty capable but does come up against challenges it can't defeat (grounding being one).
There are those areas in P&P sites that i'd like to have a go at but i don't have necassary caging/harnesses and i'm not sure how much it will do in those areas - and how much it will survive. I suspect it will have a good go (as most vits seem to!) - but i'm debating whether or
not to start something new - or keep investing in the vit (i'm leaning towards something new and have some ideas below later in post).
Here's my list of things i've thought about doing next...
- live axle conversion (to reliably run bigger tyres - but then comes the game of making it turn the rubber - is it worth all the effort for the little bit i get over 31"?)
- roll cage ( a must if i'm going to try some of these tougher sections )
- lockers ( i know these can make a big difference - but that's pretty much expected on most vehicles - potentially spendy so feels like comitting to vit as the go forward plan )
I'm getting to the point where in my mind if i want to go bigger than 31" tyres and retain reliability there are other possibly better base vehicles to start from. With the amount of bits that you potentially end up changing there might not be much original vit left (live axle, engine or gearing if possible). Don't get me wrong - i really do see the appeal of a vitara with patrol axles and some real power under the bonnet but i think i can see a simpler route to something similar.
Other than that i've got a patrol (bought as a tow vehicle) and a GV2000. The GV has some KM2's and 3" body lift and is really my partners daily drive but we go out together and it does enough while remaining good on the road. I've left the suspension alone on that one for the time being - but i've got to say it's a great little truck, we don't push it hard but it impresses offroad, and i don't feel like it owes us anything. I'll come back to the patrol in a bit.
Worth saying ideally i want to keep my toy road legal - although it would get trailered to events, and i wouldn't be dependant on it still working on return.
PLAN A
So my plan A was to take a Grand Vitara TD and start messing with it. I've done a bit of research. Looks like the diesel has the grunt and looks like it can be tweaked for some more power. Further if i understand right, the diffs could be swapped out of other models to correct for larger tyres. In my mind thats some of the standard vit limitations dealt with pretty much before starting. Ideally i'd like to get 35" tyres under it and then trailer it to some sites and see what brakes (weak diff casing,axles,bearings?). If it turns out i need to go live axle at this point (and i've pretty much accepted that might be required) - i'll go that route - although i haven't quite worked out the diff ratio situation in that case. I guess the difference here from going live axle on my vit is that i won't be removing expensive calmini bits.
Haven't really decided between a SWB or LWB but i think i've decided chopping the rear part of the body off either way, and some level of chopping at the front to clear tyres. Plan is to factor in role cage as i chop so i can get something which looks right around what is quite a curvey body shape. I want to retain some element which identifies it as a Grand Vitara. Part of the appeal of this plan is that there don't seem to be alot of Grand Vitaras around at the moment and i feel i'd have a pretty individual result.
PLAN B
I took the patrol to a pay n play at the weekend and considering it's on smaller, well worn, all terrains (when compared with my vit) - i was very impressed with it (FYI - it has a +2" shocks/springs). I know on a couple of occasions the locker was the reason, but it did some other bits that i know from previous times the vit required a bit of encouragement - and the trade off didnt seem obvious to me (didn't use locker much). As in it didnt seem to be struggling in other areas. Perhaps if the site was muddier the vit would be not sinking in so much? A few friends have already said imagine what it will do on some proper tyres on it.
So this has thrown a spanner in the works for me. I'm now wondering if i should find another Patrol to modify. I want to keep one as my daily drive/tow car/camping vehicle. My understanding is that a patrol will be much more accepting of more extreme tyres and has the strength card to play. I don't think the uniqueness factor applies quite so much, but then again there arn't alot that i've seen kicking around in the UK.
Ultimately in either case the plan would be to retire the Vitara once i'm happy i've superceeded it with something.
What do you folks think?
I'm a bit Stump-y'd on what to do next.... ( i genuinely didn't write this entire thing just to make that Joke but am fully expecting some reference to it in the responses! )
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chicken drumstick Winch Assistant
Joined: 29 May 2012 Odometer: 83 Location: Near MK
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:40 pm Post subject:
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Get a Land Rover or a Jeep. Both extremely capable from the get go. Still plenty of things you can do to them if you want. But running larger tyres (to an extent) and power are not really issues.
Any Land Rover pretty much, Disco, p38a, 90 even an old Series is hugely capable.
XJ Cherokee's are brilliant and dirt cheap to buy. Or even a ZJ Grand Cherokee.
__________________________________ Currently a Landy and Jeep owner.... |
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RichMayo Just got MTs
Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Odometer: 413 Location: Yate
1997 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:25 pm Post subject:
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Don't really want to go the land rover route thanks.
Jeeps interest me - I spent some time looking at the wranglers but started reading some horror stories about rear axles breaking. Although upgradeable I was starting to get the impression it might be tough to get the bits needed in the UK. They also seem pretty pricey. I like the XJ Cherokees but I'm not sure what they've got over the Patrol (and vice versa for that matter)... given the choice I think I'd go patrol - but that's opinion.
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Xpajun Mud Obsessed
Joined: 22 Sep 2008 Odometer: 3245
1988 Mitsubishi Shogun
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:27 am Post subject:
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I think you'll find the Patrol a difficult animal to get hold of - they seem very popular for some reason - The GV might be the best one for you to go for - you already have a wealth of knowledge from the Vit that you can use on the GV
I think you're right avoiding Landrover - it's all been done before and the only way to make them better and stop the constant breaking is to fit non-Landrover parts like Patrol axles etc.
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RichMayo Just got MTs
Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Odometer: 413 Location: Yate
1997 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:28 am Post subject:
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Good point - transferable knowledge factor! Although I've spent the last week getting familiar with the brakes on the patrol due to a seized caliper slide pin and low disks.
I've seen a fair amount of patrols on ebay - and there were 3 or 4 in total offroad for sale section this month (and its not a big section)... there's also a set of patrol axles in there... maybe that's a sign.
But I think I got lucky with how far away the one I've got was. May have to go some way for the right patrol. Agree that GVs will be much easier to find though.
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ScottieJ Guest
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:37 pm Post subject:
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What about an SJ? Out of all the suzuki's its the easiest to build so that it's reliable on 35" tyres, easier to gear than a Vitara, already live axle and easy to fit a huge number of engine options.
I've been running 33s on mine for years with no breakages since running chromo axle internals so wouldn't have any worries about running 35s.
I also use this as a daily drive.
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RichMayo Just got MTs
Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Odometer: 413 Location: Yate
1997 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:40 pm Post subject:
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To be honest an SJ is kind of my silent 3rd option. So to give me a quick idea - in your opinion what's the easiest route to useable gearing on an SJ running 35" tyres... and does it include an engine swap?
35" ain't really the be all and end all of what I'm looking to do - it's just what I think is a fairly worth while amount as a benchmark looking at power and gearing on the options (based on my vit in my opinion at it's limits of reliability and turning ability on 31" tyres).
Been looking around for pics to try and illustrate my thoughts are with the GV idea - found this on another forum. Not sure it would go as far as this truck (not even sure if it's got original chassis underneath tbh). I don't think the soft top variant is available with the diesel though - hence my comments around chopping the rear body... Think this thing... but to a lesser extent... and with arches built up - and try and blur your eyes when you look at the back edge - I've not really figured out what I want to do there... might depend on how much I want a pre-made sun roof.
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ScottieJ Guest
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Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:40 pm Post subject:
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The simplest and best way to build a very capable and pretty much bullet proof SJ on 35s would be this in my opinion, It's pretty much how I'm building my new long wheelbase but I'll mostly be running 255/85r16 for road use and laning. As long as it's geared right you can run the stock engine, but I would advise an engine swap.
This is pretty much the run down of a perfect all rounder in my opinion.
Either start with a 410 or 413, not a samurai unless you are happy to move the front spring mounts in to the 410/413 spring spacing for tyre clearance.
1.6 16v or j20a 2.0 16v vitara engine (I have both and haven't decided which one to fit in the Longwheelbase yet)
Rocklobster 4.16:1 transfer box or maybe more reduction if funds allow, I like to raise the tbox above the chassis rails for extra ground clearance and protection, this does require floor modifications.
4.6:1 diff ratios, this will maintain on road drivability. (4.3 for 33")
Full float converted rear axle. Either samurai based or a shortened vitara rear axle, I'm building a shortened vitara rear for my build as the rear diff is stronger than a samurai rear.
26 spline chromoly shafts and CV joints in the front samurai axle.
Rear springs up front conversion
YJ rear springs or Hilux fronts in the rear.
10-12" travel shocks, current Sj is on 9.5".
Stay SPUA and Virtual lift the arches
Trusses and knuckle gussets on the axles to strengthen them up.
I think I that's pretty much it, it's quite similar to my blue one minus the YJs on the front, twin transfer boxes and with an injected engine instead of a 1.6 8v on a carb.
The YJs give you a nice amount of flex and ride comfort without the need for whacky shackles. You should be able to get just as much with Ruf and YJ/Hilux rear as long as its set up well.
Last edited by ScottieJ on Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:03 am; edited 2 times in total |
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jeepmadmike Mud Obsessed
Joined: 08 May 2005 Odometer: 4573 Location: between 6000+7000 rpm and Devon
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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:27 am Post subject:
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I liked my vit a lot and was at a simular stage of mods to you and then went silly with a twin Tbox and rear locker- it was never the same truck once the mods started getting silly..
Liked all my SJs they are most fun standard but I always get the modification bug!
Jeep wranglers are huge fun and a all rounder- far nicer to live with than a defender but need a few quid spending on them to make them proper of roaders - bits are very available from the states.
If you can find one a 3.0l 70series land cruiser is a great truck size of a defender but so well made and there's room in the cab. I have one and keep thinking about selling it but then I drive it and love it!
My G wagon was quite a tool but soooooooooo heavy
I would buy a series 1 landy if I was bored but that's only for nostalgia
Deep down I'm a landy man but it all went bad from about 1960 to about 2010 some stuff they built only a anorak could love because they seem blind to the big issues
I suggest keep the Vit to use while you build a new toy
__________________________________ Land Rovers are the root of all evil!
Now i have gone and bought a D4!
one day i might buy a 86" series one like my dad had when i was a boy. |
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** GED ** Mud Obsessed
Joined: 18 Jun 2014 Odometer: 2039 Location: Scouser
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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:23 pm Post subject:
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jeepmadmike wrote: |
Jeep wranglers are huge fun and a all rounder- far nicer to live with than a defender but need a few quid spending on them to make them proper of roaders - bits are very available from the states.
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spot on...
jeepmadmike wrote: |
Deep down I'm a landy man but it all went bad from about 1960 to about 2010 some stuff they built only a anorak could love because they seem blind to the big issues
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funny, i keep saying just the same thing....
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chicken drumstick Winch Assistant
Joined: 29 May 2012 Odometer: 83 Location: Near MK
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:45 am Post subject:
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Xpajun wrote: |
I think you're right avoiding Landrover - it's all been done before and the only way to make them better and stop the constant breaking is to fit non-Landrover parts like Patrol axles etc. |
What a load of complete ******.
__________________________________ Currently a Landy and Jeep owner.... |
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chicken drumstick Winch Assistant
Joined: 29 May 2012 Odometer: 83 Location: Near MK
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:00 am Post subject:
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RichMayo wrote: | Don't really want to go the land rover route thanks. |
Just curious but why?
In the UK you'd have to be more than bonkers to not want to consider the most capable off the shelf 4x4 with the largest aftermarket.
A HUGE owners club and community. And more parts choices than you can shake a stick at. And lots of cheap easy to find, quick to replace parts. Very robust vehicles too. Anyone who tries to fob you off that they are unreliable is just a knob who doesn't actually know.
RichMayo wrote: |
Jeeps interest me - I spent some time looking at the wranglers but started reading some horror stories about rear axles breaking. Although upgradeable I was starting to get the impression it might be tough to get the bits needed in the UK. They also seem pretty pricey. I like the XJ Cherokees but I'm not sure what they've got over the Patrol (and vice versa for that matter)... given the choice I think I'd go patrol - but that's opinion. |
The Wrangler is the hallmark vehicle for sure. But they hold their money quite well. Which makes initial purchase higher, although you obviously then reap this when you come to sell it too.
Rear axles can be an issue, but it's a little over blown. In the US most people want to chuck 35-40" tyres straight on and rock crawl with diff lockers. This will break the axle pretty quick, although gentle drivers still manage fine.
If you are more of a UK mud off roader, then the stock Dana 35 is likely to be perfectly fine, even with 33"+ tyres.
The real bargain Jeep is the Cherokee XJ however. Pretty much the same running gear as the Wrangler, although you get a transfer box that offers full and part time AWD which is a very nice bonus IMO as it allows you to run AWD on the road.
The Cherokee is comfy, compact on the outside but big enough to carry people and gear.
The 4.0 litre engine is a complete Gem too.
I'm afraid I don't know much about the Patrol, but I think they are typically bigger and heavier than a Cherokee. Also does the Patrol have live axles at both ends? If not, then that is one major advantage to the Jeep.
The other Jeep to look at is the Grand Cherokee. I like the earlier ZJ best, but the WJ is quite nice too. These are a bit bigger than the XJ Cherokee and more plush (so nicer to be in and use for longer distance). But they are still smaller than a Range Rover of Discovery.
The Grands either have the same brilliant 4.0 or a very nice 5.2 V8.
Not trying to dis the Suzuki's (I actually like them). But off roading a grunty V8 vs a gutless tiny 4 pot just isn't remotely similar and I know what I prefer.
Also remember with Jeep, this is the brand that has the LARGEST after market of any 4x4 (even bigger than Land Rover). Yes a lot is US based, but buying from the US really isn't hard. And there are plenty of places in the UK that sell upgrades for them.
__________________________________ Currently a Landy and Jeep owner.... |
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dxmedia Mud Obsessed
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:51 am Post subject:
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Bought a 2.8 y61 patrol to replace a lifted ZG 4.0 Yes y61's are live axle both ends.
Now drive a WG 4.7
The patrol ownership was the shortest ownership of any 4x4 I've had. Massive, underpowered, awful chassis rust.
I've now had the WG longer than any other 4x4 I've owned, and can't think what I can replace it with.
Fully loaded. Fast, not quick, but SPAM GTI beating fast, 30 mpg on LPG, tows 3 1/2 tonne, tow's my 1 1/2 tonne boat like it's not there. BUT american build quality. Hit a speed bump and the crashing noise isn't the suspension, it's the whole dash rattling. The 4.7's also have a d44 back axle.
The 4.7 high power was the largest engine that they put in the WG's, the hemi lump doesn't fit. If you can find one which has the selector trac (I think) it's got mechanical LSD's in the front and rear axles which apparently do pretty much lock. Not common though.
Biggest problem with lifting jeeps is the length of the control arms. The further away from horizontal the worst the ride. To lift a jeep and still have a pleasant drive you need to move the mounting brakets down the chassis rails and fit longer arms.
Oh another problem with the cherokees / Grands, is that if you fully articulate one then you can't open the boot. The lack of a ladder chassis does cause them to twist.
One thing going for the WG's above all else, they are at least 1/2 the price of the y61's. I paid under a 1/3.
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chicken drumstick Winch Assistant
Joined: 29 May 2012 Odometer: 83 Location: Near MK
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:00 pm Post subject:
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I truly loved my XJ. Wish I'd never sold it.
Better on fuel than a Rover V8 and nicer power delivery too. Would easily do 21-23mpg on a run. Handled really well too and was down right fun on the road, even when lifted and on MT's.
Mine was a complete budget. Think I paid £500'ish for the Jeep and £80 for a 'budget boost' 2" lift kit. And acquired some 31.10.50 MT's. Also bought some wheel spacers for it.
This sure wasn't 'extreme', but it was hugely capable and would go anywhere a good Defender 90 would go.
If you wanted more then or more extreme, then all you need is a long arm suspension lift kit and some minor wheel arch trimming and you can then run some 35.10.50's on it.
Lots of choice for different kinds of lockers too.
It was a lot of fun and the 6 pot made a nice noise too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qddVTI2pINY
Nice comparison what a mildly modded Cherokee (not my one) can do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K0d5Z6IwOM&...TGMWUTTEPCrQ3pzzw
I say mildly, as engine, transmission, axles, body can all remain stock. Suspension, tyres and wheelarch flares are all you need to make it brutally capable.
__________________________________ Currently a Landy and Jeep owner.... |
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RichardD Marshall
Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Odometer: 22856 Location: State of Confusion
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:10 pm Post subject:
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We have one of them for the 4x4 service for Lifesavers Scotland (www.lifesaversscotland.org). Not driven it yet as it is still being welded back up after the tin worm had a field day.
__________________________________ Poking the Grim Reaper with a stick then running away. The devil made me do it but God said it was okay with him. |
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chicken drumstick Winch Assistant
Joined: 29 May 2012 Odometer: 83 Location: Near MK
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:31 pm Post subject:
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Rust shouldn't be too much of an issue on an XJ. Just watch the sills and boot floor. Facelift ones I think are galvanised. So even less risk.
__________________________________ Currently a Landy and Jeep owner.... |
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RichMayo Just got MTs
Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Odometer: 413 Location: Yate
1997 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:47 pm Post subject:
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Sorry for not getting back sooner - seems difflock only notifies me of updates to threads if I i'm the previous poster.
Y60 patrol is live axle both ends, and mines got a locker in the back end. Its the 2.8TD so is sluggish.
chicken drumstick wrote: | RichMayo wrote: | Don't really want to go the land rover route thanks. |
Just curious but why?
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No problem. Nothing against 'em at all. It's just the having something that is a bit different factor really - or not the norm. I guess i could do something a bit different to a Landy - but i think starting with a less common (in the UK) base vehicle is a good idea - then you can do not-the-norm mods to a vehicle which is already not-the-norm so hopefully result is something which is that bit more unique (in the UK at least). It's just part of the value add for me. We've got quite a good variety in our group... last time was a Gvit, Patrol, Sportrak, 90, 110. I also enjoy the variation on how the different trucks perform - makes real interesting outings seeing where one might succeed but another fails. Maybe I would have had one if it hadn't been for budgeting when I started with the vit - course that's all gone wrong if I look back at the money ive spent on mods - probably could have got a landy for the money ive now spent My Dads got a couple of series land rovers (1,3). No real issue with them - and I can really see the appeal of wide availability of parts/mods here. On the other hand I'm a bit partial to the looks of the lightweights... maybe next time though
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RichMayo Just got MTs
Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Odometer: 413 Location: Yate
1997 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:52 pm Post subject:
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jeepmadmike wrote: |
I suggest keep the Vit to use while you build a new toy |
That's the plan
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RichMayo Just got MTs
Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Odometer: 413 Location: Yate
1997 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:09 pm Post subject:
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Is that all that has been done here?
Fair point on strength of axles. I've heard the 4.0 is good. Is manual or auto best? What's the gearing situation with oversized tyres? Does the XJ have separate chassis body?
I think I need to go away and do some research on the XJ. More choice of starting vehicle, good value, more mod availability... still ticks the not so many around offroading box for me (that I've seen). And I like how they look!
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chicken drumstick Winch Assistant
Joined: 29 May 2012 Odometer: 83 Location: Near MK
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Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:32 pm Post subject:
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Not sure you'll find any manual 4.0 Cherokee's in the UK. They were available State side, but I think UK models where only auto's. I like manuals so this is one negative to the XJ.
That said, you might be lucky and find an import or something (not impossible to convert either). Wranglers are quite common with manuals and the 4.0, but you get the big price hike on purchase price with the Wranglers.
I would advise avoiding the 2.5 VM unit. Not a bad unit, but parts hard to find and they can suffer HG issues. Nice unit otherwise. And the 2.5 petrol is perfectly fine, will be faster than a Tdi Land Rover. But more revvy and less grunty than the 4.0 and no better on fuel.
That all said and done, the auto works brilliantly with the 4.0. I'm not sure if it locks up in low range or what, but down hill was fine, no run away like a classic Range Rover auto. And tbh I could even be a convert to auto's for off roading, it just plain worked.
Re: axles. IIRC the front is a Dana 30 and the rear usually a Dana 35, although I think sometimes a Corporate Chrysler axle of some kind.
The D35 can be beefed up with a kit and is in reality no worse than a Land Rover axle. Or you could see about swapping in something like a Dana 44 axle (found on the current JK Wranglers).
If you want to go big tyres, then yes a re-gear will be needed. But I think it's pretty cheap for the most part. Certainly no worse than any other 4x4 and I suspect cheaper than many.
31's you won't need to re-gear at all and might be fine on 33's if you don't mind the trade off on road.
One thing you will need to do is lift it. Stock they ride very low on tiny tyres. I think this is because the trend in the USA is the aftermarket and most people mod such vehicles. Although in the US they did sell an Up Country version which came with a mild lift and AT's as stock (we didn't get it in the UK).
The Cherokee is unibody not ladder chassis. Hence it's low weight and compact roof line. There is a little body flex, but nothing major and there is always the option to plate it. Lots of good articles on doing this on the interweb.
Some interesting info here:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-cherokee/87...pics-post-15.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-cherokee/50...pics-post-11.html
__________________________________ Currently a Landy and Jeep owner.... |
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** GED ** Mud Obsessed
Joined: 18 Jun 2014 Odometer: 2039 Location: Scouser
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Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:32 pm Post subject:
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chicken drumstick wrote: | Not sure you'll find any manual 4.0 Cherokee's in the UK. They were available State side, but I think UK models where only auto's. I like manuals so this is one negative to the XJ.
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there are a number of white 4L manuals that were brought over to try out as paramedic vehicles.
chicken drumstick wrote: |
I would advise avoiding the 2.5 VM unit. Not a bad unit, but parts hard to find and they can suffer HG issues. |
parts are really easy to find and as long as the coolant is changed and the cooling system is overhauled the HG problem doesnt occur. can also be twin tanked to run on veg oil
chicken drumstick wrote: |
If you want to go big tyres, then yes a re-gear will be needed. But I think it's pretty cheap for the most part. Certainly no worse than any other 4x4 and I suspect cheaper than many. |
not unless you can do it yourself.
or fit the rear axle from the 2.5 petrol as its the closest match to the one you need for running 33`s
chicken drumstick wrote: |
31's you won't need to re-gear at all and might be fine on 33's if you don't mind the trade off on road.
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nope, it will hunt up and down from top on the motorway. it CAN run 35`s stock gearing but it really messes things up 31`s is fine and all that is required.
chicken drumstick wrote: |
One thing you will need to do is lift it. Stock they ride very low on tiny tyres. I think this is because the trend in the USA is the aftermarket and most people mod such vehicles. Although in the US they did sell an Up Country version which came with a mild lift and AT's as stock (we didn't get it in the UK).
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you will also need wheel spacers for 31"s or above. 30mm billet give the right clearance.
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RichardD Marshall
Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Odometer: 22856 Location: State of Confusion
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:57 am Post subject:
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chicken drumstick wrote: | Rust shouldn't be too much of an issue on an XJ. Just watch the sills and boot floor. Facelift ones I think are galvanised. So even less risk. |
Ours (1997) is a rust bucket. No sills left and rot all over the place. I didn't want to touch it but some other kind person (madman) is getting busy with the welder.
__________________________________ Poking the Grim Reaper with a stick then running away. The devil made me do it but God said it was okay with him. |
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** GED ** Mud Obsessed
Joined: 18 Jun 2014 Odometer: 2039 Location: Scouser
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:19 pm Post subject:
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when i had mine they were newer and there was no sign of rot. wonder if they suddenly start after a certain time or yours has just has a hard life.
hmm
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RichMayo Just got MTs
Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Odometer: 413 Location: Yate
1997 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:32 pm Post subject:
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** GED ** wrote: |
or fit the rear axle from the 2.5 petrol as its the closest match to the one you need for running 33`s
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wiki suggests 3.55:1 diffs on a auto 4.0l, manual 2.5l has 4.10:1. Looks to me like they're both likely to be Dana30's front and Dana35's rear... so i'm guessing diffs are pretty interchangeable? Is this what they tend to do in the states?
How much do you think the weight plays into how capable the XJ's are? Googling reckons 1500Kgs, that's a big drop when compared with a patrol or a disco... and that's only a bit more than a SWB grand vitara with a diesel lump in it... could be a really big plus point.
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** GED ** Mud Obsessed
Joined: 18 Jun 2014 Odometer: 2039 Location: Scouser
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:29 pm Post subject:
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mine , when it had a 2" lift used to go anywhere i wanted it to. i used to compete with the awdc (moons ago) and it used to do very well. but then i didnt use it as a challenge truck. it was the auto box and the engine that made everything easy. just point and squirt. it had the power to go anywhere it could get grip.
then i lifted it a lot more and the whole vehicle changed into something else. it was still the great daily driver i was used to but would crawl over anything i asked it to. motorways became a nightmare, constantly hunting gears. it looked amazing and had some very high end gear on (sponsorship) but then it was built partially as a show truck.
if i had another i would 2" lift (proper lift) space the wheels and put good muds on then leave it at that.
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chicken drumstick Winch Assistant
Joined: 29 May 2012 Odometer: 83 Location: Near MK
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:02 pm Post subject:
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** GED ** wrote: | when i had mine they were newer and there was no sign of rot. wonder if they suddenly start after a certain time or yours has just has a hard life.
hmm |
Suspect hard life or bad luck. Really never heard of them being major issues rust wise.
1997 is the cross over year for the face lift model.
Note the front indicator (pre facelift):
And post face lift, slimmer indicator assy:
__________________________________ Currently a Landy and Jeep owner.... |
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** GED ** Mud Obsessed
Joined: 18 Jun 2014 Odometer: 2039 Location: Scouser
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:45 pm Post subject:
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just a tip, look at the front doors.
the post facelift did not have a quarter light mate
also the top one is a 2 door, the bottom 4.
so you cant really see the facelift differences
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RichMayo Just got MTs
Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Odometer: 413 Location: Yate
1997 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:40 pm Post subject:
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** GED ** wrote: |
then i lifted it a lot more and the whole vehicle changed into something else. it was still the great daily driver i was used to but would crawl over anything i asked it to. motorways became a nightmare, constantly hunting gears. it looked amazing and had some very high end gear on (sponsorship) but then it was built partially as a show truck.
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Have you got a list of where the spec ended up? Sounds like the downside was the gear searching on motorways - what did you do to it gearing-wise and tyre size?
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** GED ** Mud Obsessed
Joined: 18 Jun 2014 Odometer: 2039 Location: Scouser
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:51 pm Post subject:
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RichMayo wrote: |
Have you got a list of where the spec ended up? |
not to hand, but if you look in Total Off Road magazine from Dec2007, it was a featured vehicle.
RichMayo wrote: |
Sounds like the downside was the gear searching on motorways |
being honest, it was one of many
RichMayo wrote: |
what did you do to it gearing-wise |
i bought a whole back axle with the 2.5 petrol gearing in, but snapped the chassis in half before fitting it.
RichMayo wrote: |
and tyre size? |
i played around with 33`s and 35`s as i was sponsored by Kumho at the time. 35`s looked epic, but 33`s were better offroad as they allowed it to flex.
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RichMayo Just got MTs
Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Odometer: 413 Location: Yate
1997 Suzuki Vitara
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:57 pm Post subject:
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oh... so chassis snapping - would you say that's a weakness or did you encourage it?
were you planning on getting a front diff to swap in too?
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