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xjairusx Gate Opener
Joined: 09 Jan 2014 Odometer: 1
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Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:50 am Post subject: Hi everyone... looking for my first 4*4
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I'm in the need of something capable of towing a car transporter or potentially caravan for camping holidays . A little research has lead me to think I'm looking for something like one of the following:
Sensible side:
Daihatsu Fourtrak 2.8 TD 7 seater
Ford Maverick/Nissan Terano 2.7 TD LWB (Intercooler Model)
Mitsubishi Pajero 2.8TD or possibly Shogun equivalent
Ssangyong/Daewoo Korando/Musso 2.9 TD
Expensive side:
Mercedes ML350 LPG Converted
BMW X5 3.0D or LPG converted 4.0
VW Touraeg
Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel or LPG converted
Can anyone shed light on the first 4 selections with pro's and cons and particular faults to look out for? Possibly from a drivers point of view and a mechanical/reliability/safety/efficiency/technical point of view (as I like to do a lot of mechanical work on cars myself and most 4*4's look pretty nice to work on!). Any particular features they may have? To help me perhaps narrow the search down!
I do like to tune cars some what and have much experience with electronic systems so the manual stuff should be a doddle
I like the idea of being able to run on SVO if I can get it at a reasonable price as I currently drive a SPAM PD150 which is unsuitable due to the injection system. I heard the mercedes engines in the korando's were great for svo. and I saw parrots video of trying to fill a fourtrak engine which was amusing lol. I do quite like the styling.
Will most likely be looking for swaps/part ex with my current SPAM should someone interested come up or otherwise happy to buy the right car (pending imminent sale of the SPAM to pay for it!) lol.
Look forward to spending some more time on the forums.
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Wollys World :) Mud Obsessed
Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Odometer: 2273 Location: radcliffe/manchester
1992 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 1:50 pm Post subject:
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Hi kida, i have owned 2 Disco`s i Fourtrack INdy, and 3 shoguns + other but not what yoy would want as they are to small for what you need.
Every time i will go for the MItsi, either Shoggy or Paj and defo the 2.8TD or V6 petrol on LPG for economy, good power for towing, all the comforts and great for modding also cheap as the Disco for parts, dont listen to the green oval folk who know notting else, yes they are good and cheap though.
Last one i ran on WVO/SVO with just a FPHE, summer time 100% winter 95%5% petrol with no ill affect, done a 900 mile caravan holiday at a cost of £45 as i could gte it cheap used. Same would be for the Disco. but looks and comfort goes with the Shogun, Paj are the same really, Paj have been over here a long time now so will getting tired with the rot. check rear chassis and inner archs, front inner wheel archs, cills. Same for the Disco but the boot floor is a bad area for most unless your lucky on the 200/300 also tye are just old farmers wifes cars now bligy unless you go newer than the 200/300.
Fourtrack i would bother with for towing and no real comforts for what you pay, but good for towing still as good power/torq. just longer wheel base is best with any towing vehicle.
You can easy boost the power on a shoggy/Paj with a fettle of the turbo, check it out on the POCUK forum. good lads on there and real helpfull. its a free boost aswell of around 25BHP and no extra fuel cost to tell of.
i would pay between £1500-£2500 for either the a Disco 200/300 or 2,8TD LWB Shoggy/Paj, more for a good 3.5V6 on LPG
the newer 4x4 i cant say as never had one.
good luck kida
wolly
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Wallop Smithy Just got MTs
Joined: 01 Dec 2011 Odometer: 211 Location: Shropshire
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 5:51 pm Post subject:
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Completely agree with Wolly on this, but would add the 3.0 Terrano as a contender aswell.
__________________________________ Death come's to us all. The trick is to make him work for it. |
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Ned Just got MTs
Joined: 27 May 2009 Odometer: 101 Location: Ireland
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:16 pm Post subject:
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i have two fourtaks for offroading, and i do mean abusing.
the first one (in my av to the left there) had 530000 miles (miles) on the clock, i looked at it in horror (uncle bought it with my money) and thought it was a freak.
then we bought another, for peanuts, like 200 euros. this one 460000 miles (miles). therefore the first was not a freak.
ive hammered seven shades of ........ out of them since and they take it and never break. they are both standard except i added dumper tyres.
i got one stranded in a bog for 4 days, up passed its axles in water. the guys on the owners forum were like, nah, dont worry, it'll be fine. I got it pulled out by a 4x4 tractor and it was fine, no bothers at all to it.
ive often wondered how they last so long. also they pull themselves up mountain-sides like a train.
i think its that the engine is a good engine, both mine were the non turbo ones, solid axles. its a good engine, and its more than powerful enough for what in 4x4x terms is a small body. which i guess means that the engine isnt under any real strain.
whatever the reason is, they outlive everything else. everything else. please show me something tougher. please.
so if i was going to buy a 4x4 that would just last, forever, i would buy a fourtrack with under 200,000 miles on the clock. you might find one with quite a bit less, ive seen them appear, but they probably are getting scarce now.
__________________________________ learning, the hard way |
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(pete) Mud Obsessed
Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Odometer: 5806 Location: aldershot
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:44 am Post subject:
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Vote here for Pajero/shogun too excellent trucks v6 engine can suffer with cam chain issues so I would stick with derv lumps the 2.5tdci I had was tuned and running on veggie neat most of the time the pumps and actuator for the turbo can be tweaked for free for some decent pull power some come with height adjustable suspension and rear lockers as standard items most have stiffness adjustable shocks as standard too
HOWEVER I also had a 300tdi disco that was tuned and also run on veggie the 3.5 ton towing limit on a disco could fair you well and parts to mod are nice an cheap and easily available spares are never an issue, you will more than likely get very good at welding as 99% will require some welding but don't discount them as a viable truck for the job. My would pull a house down
Dihatsu bit smaller than the other two but same applies to the the ditsy as the disco suffer from rot but a good one will be fine older cars were proper axles front and rear and leaf sprung with the newer cars going independent front the 2.8 fitted in them is a power house and a few I know use that engine in 90/defender and they with the right attention will spin all 4 wheels in 3rd on tarmac
All are easy to work on if you know what your doing but can be heavy
Hope this helps and welcome to the forum
Pete
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Xpajun Mud Obsessed
Joined: 22 Sep 2008 Odometer: 3245
1988 Mitsubishi Shogun
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:10 am Post subject:
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Better late than never I suppose...
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(pete) Mud Obsessed
Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Odometer: 5806 Location: aldershot
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:04 pm Post subject:
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Xpajun wrote: | Better late than never I suppose... |
Took three days type besides all good things and that....
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** GED ** Mud Obsessed
Joined: 18 Jun 2014 Odometer: 2039 Location: Scouser
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:14 pm Post subject:
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glad to see the musso in there.
im on my second and cant fault it.
mercedes engine, no faults there, bodywork and chassis dont rust away runs on 100% wvo all year round without damaging the pump, unlike some of the vehicles listed above. (he says it does but i can show you the posts where it all went wrong)
boot floor doesnt fall out
tune it with a phillips screwdriver and a 10mm spanner.
aircon, leccy stuff, massive inside.
and better than a rusty fourtrack
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Xpajun Mud Obsessed
Joined: 22 Sep 2008 Odometer: 3245
1988 Mitsubishi Shogun
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:12 pm Post subject:
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(pete) wrote: | Xpajun wrote: | Better late than never I suppose... |
Took three days type besides all good things and that.... |
And the other half a year?????
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(pete) Mud Obsessed
Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Odometer: 5806 Location: aldershot
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:19 pm Post subject:
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Well now there is a story best left untold
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Ned Just got MTs
Joined: 27 May 2009 Odometer: 101 Location: Ireland
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:39 am Post subject:
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im not talking about comfort, im talking about ability to take abuse and go on for decades with minimal attention.
i will concede that the fortrak sufferes from rust, usually behind the front seats in the cargo bed.
however the other cars listed never go about 200,00 miles (and if they do its unusual)
whereas my traks both have in or around 500,000, miles.
__________________________________ learning, the hard way |
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(pete) Mud Obsessed
Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Odometer: 5806 Location: aldershot
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:53 am Post subject:
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My Pajero hat 375.000 on the clock when I sold it and is still going strong today my mate absolutely loves it
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** GED ** Mud Obsessed
Joined: 18 Jun 2014 Odometer: 2039 Location: Scouser
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:57 am Post subject:
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really?
so, its unusual for the musso, with the 5 cylinder 2.9 turbo MERCEDES OM602 engine, the same engine fitted to early sprinter vans to do a few hundred thousand miles?
thats gonna come as a shock to all those couriers out there that bought the vans back in the day for just that reason....
look at what he needs the vehicle for. can you imagine taking a family of four, with luggage, a dog and a caravan on a long journey in a fourtrack?
if the boot floor didnt fall out with the luggage the poor kids and the dog in the back would kill each other.
so yes, we need to talk about comfort. the "my vehicle is best" argument is great, we can all do that all day, but look at his requirements.
he wants to tow a large car transporter
the guy i collected that for is on here. if he sees it he may well comment on how well that coped with the lake district hills
caravan holidays.
lets look at this and see if the fourtrack keeps up
the roofbox is the biggest one they make. doesnt look so big up there. in the boot is a three foot by two foot dog cage with two dogs in and three 60 litre drums of waste veg oil. note i said in the boot. and there was nothing stacked on top of them as you can see. the kids were sat in the back in the reclining rear seats (with triple armrests dontcherknow) and enough legroom for a 6 foot tall adult. up front its massive. really relaxed driving position and adjustable electric heated all sorts.
and thats not a little caravan either. the musso just makes it look small. it dragged it all over the west wales mountains with no problems.
then theres the legendary ability to run on just about anything that will pour into the tank. 100% waste veg oil in winter? no problem. doesnt even need petrol to thin it like the fourtrack does. conversley, found yourself with a glut of misfuel? no problem. the mercedes engine is designed to cope with 30% petrol (mercs own figures). dirty wet waste oil? no problem. dont worry about waxing filters, just filter to 10 micron and chuck it in. the bosch inline pump (regarded as the best in the world for veg oil) will cope no problems.
so, whilst the legendary toughness of the fourtrack is a huge plus point along with its ability to sit in a swamp for four days, nowhere in the original post is this specified as a requirement.
or if you have more money, buy the merc.
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(pete) Mud Obsessed
Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Odometer: 5806 Location: aldershot
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:11 am Post subject:
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In all honesty I drove one of geds Korean dogs and there all right quite comfortable and quite powerful there something a little different looks wise but I quite like them.
There is plenty to choose from in that age and price bracket all are similar equipment wise. I do agree that the fourtrak although a good truck it's to small for a family and luggage on long journeys
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muffin Just got MTs
Joined: 27 Jul 2011 Odometer: 129
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:57 pm Post subject:
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That's all well and good GED bringing out the "my cars best" argument but just look at the thing, fair enough its the size of a small house and powered by a decent engine but who designed the thing? It looks like a blind Chinese man has just thrown a few panels together and said "that'll do!" it really is ugly.
For me it would be a 2.8 LWB exceed paj. Would suit you down to the ground
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** GED ** Mud Obsessed
Joined: 18 Jun 2014 Odometer: 2039 Location: Scouser
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:39 pm Post subject:
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muffin wrote: | That's all well and good GED bringing out the "my cars best" argument |
err, i didnt. i actually said this
** GED ** wrote: |
so yes, we need to talk about comfort. the "my vehicle is best" argument is great, we can all do that all day, but look at his requirements.
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which was in response to the previous post.
had i thought my vehicle was the best, then i wouldnt have said this at the end, would i?
** GED ** wrote: |
or if you have more money, buy the merc. |
muffin wrote: | but just look at the thing, fair enough its the size of a small house and powered by a decent engine but who designed the thing? It looks like a blind Chinese man has just thrown a few panels together and said "that'll do!" it really is ugly.
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korean actually
to paraphrase....
and the pajero is a thing of beauty?
or,
do you want to drive it or sleep with it.
personally, im not that shallow that i worry about a vehicles looks more than its reliability, performance and all round suitability.
but if the cap fits.....
and how about the running on svo all year round? because despite claims to the contrary, that rules the paj out.
again, look at the requirements in the opening post.
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** GED ** Mud Obsessed
Joined: 18 Jun 2014 Odometer: 2039 Location: Scouser
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:40 pm Post subject:
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or better still, dont buy a musso coz that means there is more left for those of us who actually know about them.
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Xpajun Mud Obsessed
Joined: 22 Sep 2008 Odometer: 3245
1988 Mitsubishi Shogun
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:55 pm Post subject:
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Seeing that the original poster hasn't been around since January when he made his only post starting this thread the posts since and especially the latter posts must be immaterial to the OP
Being Pajero biased I'd always put it first although I'd never run SVO in it unless I was only keeping it short term and selling it on
The Daihatsu can pull 3 tonnes - or is it 3.5 tonne? That makes it the best tow truck - possibly not the most comfortable vehicle though
Terannos rust badly and have electronic problems
The Shogun just rusts
Then we have the GEDcar.....
Only seen one of this type laning the owner was boasting jut how good a 4x4 it was (just like GED) 2nd lane we did he dropped out as the car couldn't make it up the short incline Having said that I wouldn't knock it really... honest and who needs looks when you have comfort - heck Land Rover owners don't have either
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** GED ** Mud Obsessed
Joined: 18 Jun 2014 Odometer: 2039 Location: Scouser
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:13 pm Post subject:
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Xpajun wrote: |
Then we have the GEDcar.....
Only seen one of this type laning the owner was boasting jut how good a 4x4 it was (just like GED) 2nd lane we did he dropped out as the car couldn't make it up the short incline |
ahh, i never said they were great offroad mate. if driven correctly they get by, but the huge belly and ar5e rule it out of any serious stuff.
but then offroad ability wasnt a requirement of the original post.
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w3526602 Difflock Royalty
Joined: 10 Jun 2002 Odometer: 10758 Location: Glynneath, South Wales
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:28 pm Post subject:
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Hi,
Google ALGYS AUTOS MAZDA BONGO or just search Ebayfor BONGO.
I'd be interested in what others think of these, as I will shortly have to include my daugther and her two kids in my future itenaries. Also pondering on LWB Safari, and VW T25 SYNCRO (4x4 camper).
Mind you, I haven't mentioned this to my SWMBO yet .. let's get the house move done and dusted first.
Toyotas have such a good reputation for taking abuse, that many never get serviced ......
602
__________________________________ Don't force it, use a bigger hammer, cos if it doesn't fit, the hammer is not big enough. |
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