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Total OffRoad / NERC2 ?!

 
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Difflock Forum Index -> Green Lanes and Rights of Way
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suzuki-dave
Winch Assistant


Joined: 17 Oct 2013
Odometer: 52




PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:01 pm    Post subject: Total OffRoad / NERC2 ?! Reply with quote

Anyone seen and read the latest (March) issue of Total OffRoad yet?... Still waiting for mine to arrive with my advert invoice...

"100% OF LANES TO CLOSE" (under NERC2)

Confused
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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got mine this morning but haven't read it yet - not good if it happens Sad
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Paul Woodward
Just got MTs


Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Odometer: 488
Location: Swindon / Wiltshire



PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all about the Deregulation bill.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/draft...-committee-report

Two Paragraphs concern rights of way;

80. There is clearly considerable debate on the need for further reform to the legislation governing the use of motorised vehicles on public rights of way and minor unsealed roads, especially in National Parks. We have sympathy with the concerns of those who have put forward proposals to protect routes that are vulnerable to damage by motorised vehicles. However, we believe that the motor vehicle issue is quite different in nature to that of recording historical rights of way and completing the definitive map.

81. Defra considers that any change to the current government framework for managing motorised vehicles should be the subject of a full public consultation. We believe that this issue needs to be fully debated and a separate package of policy measures formulated for implementation, through legislation if necessary, when a suitable opportunity arises.

__________________________________
GLASS VLS officer.
www.glass-uk.org
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Paul Woodward
Just got MTs


Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Odometer: 488
Location: Swindon / Wiltshire



PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

P.S.

Great laning blog on your site Dave. Always read all the way through and watch the vids even though I'm a Landrover man!!

__________________________________
GLASS VLS officer.
www.glass-uk.org
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suzuki-dave
Winch Assistant


Joined: 17 Oct 2013
Odometer: 52




PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul Woodward wrote:
P.S.

Great laning blog on your site Dave. Always read all the way through and watch the vids even though I'm a Landrover man!!


Thanks Paul Wink
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Privateer
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems to be some confusion re Brushfield/Monsal, anyone know whats going on here, can't find much about it and we're hoping to get down that area soon.
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ScottieJ
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm actually amazed by the lack of responses in this thread on the proposed deregulation bill. After all it could lead to and end to a large part of our hobby.

Here's the part's which we should all be aware of:

"BOATS and UCRs
147. The additional provision which elicited by far the greatest number of responses was
that Byways Open to All Traffic (BOATs) and unsealed Unclassified County Roads (UCRs)
should be re-classified as Restricted Byways and closed to vehicular traffic. Over one third
of responses to our Call for Evidence urged support for this reform
..

148. The Peak District Green Lanes Alliance (PDGLA) explained the argument:
The minor rights of way network consists predominantly of unsealed highways. ...
Such lanes do not form part of the normal transport network but (apart from
agricultural and land management use) mainly serve recreational purposes for both
vehicle and non-vehicle users. In the early days of motoring this dual use could be
accommodated. However the growing number of heavily powered off-road vehicles,
many equipped with deep treads, is now causing unacceptable problems. ... The
problems caused are of two types. Firstly, there is physical damage both to the lanes
themselves and the wider environment. ... Secondly, there is increasing conflict with
non-vehicle users and local communities.228
149. Patricia Stubbs, of the PDGLA, elaborated on the deregulatory nature of the proposal
in oral evidence and also said that it would save “a large amount of public money” because
it would reduce the need for repair work.229
150. The Green Lanes Environmental Action Movement (GLEAM), which supports the
PDGLA proposals, also proposed that a right of appeal against inaction or unreasonable
refusal by highways authorities in respect of requests for Traffic Regulation Orders under
the RTRA 1984 should be created, as a further mechanism for protecting unsealed BOATs
and unclassified UCRs against damage by recreational off-road motor vehicles
.
230
151. We asked the SWG panel about the issue. Mrs Emrys-Roberts said that it was an issue
which had been brought to the attention of Defra by the SWG and that it was “something
that needs to be dealt with”.231"

What does this mean for us?

If you read the first section it shows that the regulation could turn all byways and all unsealed classified roads into restricted byways.

If that happens, we'd be screwed.

Furthermore, the regulators seem to primarily only be hearing from the antis, particularly the nazis from GLEAM. In fact over one third of respondents have supported that all byways become restricted, with no vehicular access!

This demonstrates exactly why we need to try and write to our MP's. Right now, the only people they're hearing from are the people that want our byways closed for good.

LARA have produced a fact sheet which gives some great pointers to include. You can view it here:

http://www.alrc.co.uk/downloads/deregulationbil...A%20Factsheet.pdf

Don't know which MP is supposed to represent your consituency in parliament? This website will tell you by entering your postcode:

http://www.writetothem.com
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ScottieJ
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GLASS Situation report, 10 April 2014.

The progress of the Deregulation Bill through Parliament seems to have slowed from the original predicted timetable. The Bill has been through its Committee Stage in the House of Commons, and now has to have the Report Stage (at which MPs can move amendments from the floor) and then Third Reading (MPs cannot move further amendments).

It is therefore important to keep the letter-writing to MPs going, not least because we may have problems in the House of Lords, and will then depend on MPs to put it right again. Once an MP has had a letter then the Bill is a live issue for him or her.

It looks increasingly likely that the Report Stage and Third Reading will now not happen before the end of the Parliamentary session, and that the Bill will ‘carry over’ into the next session, after the Queen’s Speech on 4 June. Even if the Commons squeezes it through before Parliament is prorogued, it is very unlikely to get into the House of Lords before June.

Our Team have started meeting with Peers with an interest in motoring and access matters, and will continue to develop these links. We are reasonably sure that the ‘antis’ will be briefing Peers to seek amendments against us, and we want Peers to ensure that the Government’s promise of an objective inquiry and a public consultation process holds the line.

Individuals cannot lobby Peers directly (but if you know any, do please make contact with them) but we can and should engage with the democratic part of Parliament, and keep writing to, and meeting with, MPs.

There is a lot still going on, and a lot more to do besides. Contact with your MP is still important because even if the Deregulation Bill passes into law as drafted we will then face a round of consultation and a fresh Bill specifically focused on unsealed roads. This latter option will inevitably result in some new restriction on ‘green lane’ activities for motorists but the level of this new restriction will depend on the strength of our lobbying.
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Privateer
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not wishing to sound defeatist but........

Most of us have been here before with NERC 1, add that to the fact that most Brits would sit alongside a bomb on a train knowingly and silently rather than make a fuss shouting a warning, we deserve all we get Crying or Very sad
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NylonAdmiral
Gate Opener


Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Odometer: 12
Location: Wiltshire



PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Privateer wrote:
Not wishing to sound defeatist but........

Most of us have been here before with NERC 1, add that to the fact that most Brits would sit alongside a bomb on a train knowingly and silently rather than make a fuss shouting a warning, we deserve all we get Crying or Very sad


Privateer - I agree.

Raise the price of public transport in South America - people go insane and burn the city down.

Have a corrupt government in Egypt - people go insane and burn the city down.

Have a corrupt government in the UK, increasing over regulation, increasingly restricted rights and all the stuff - we sit in quiet dissatisfaction and have a cup of tea.

But...

We ONLY deserve all we get if we don't take any action.

If we sit idly by then the anti's don't even need to do anything, they've already won.

Laws have been passed, governments have fallen or been formed, ideology's over turned - all on the weight of a single vote.

Imagine if the proposed amendments make it in to the Deregulation Bill by a single vote, how many of us would be wishing we'd done something whilst we're all sitting around crying, trying to sell our 4x4s for scrap money. In fact, your own signature says "the future is unwritten" - if we take action we can try to influence how the future pans out for us.

Just saying.
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.
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Odometer: 40007
Location: Northern Ireland's Gold Coast


2009 Land Rover 110 CSW

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As has been said this could have serious implications for our pastime and we all need to respond as per LARA and the MSAs recommendation.
__________________________________
Bert the Defender 110 XS - because it's Cool (work it out yourself!)
Lolita the Lightweight
???? the V8 90 CSW
Suzuki DL1000 V-Strom - yes that's right, I have a Zook!


Last edited by . on Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NylonAdmiral
Gate Opener


Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Odometer: 12
Location: Wiltshire



PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those of you who want to take action but aren't sure what to do, if you follow the link Scott posted there is now a template letter you can download and send to your MP.
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Privateer
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please don't get me wrong, I'm backing this all the way, I'm even re-joining GLASS (Crying or Very sad), guess I'm just a sucker for lost causes as I don't believe this is just about the usual anti brigade.

If you look at it from the other side:-

The anti 4x4 lobby would ban all 4x4's from everywhere on the planet.
We are not considered "green"
Repair costs to the lanes would almost vanish (along with the lane) that would suit many councils
It would not be politically correct to be seen to support a bunch of offroad yobs as we are now painted.

Add to all that (and there will be many more negative reasons I suspect) we are a minority whether we like it or not and fighting on too many fronts. I believe the final outcome will be as it was with CROW and NERC1. I just hope this isn't our Bridge Too Far.
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ScottieJ
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NylonAdmiral wrote:
For those of you who want to take action but aren't sure what to do, if you follow the link Scott posted there is now a template letter you can download and send to your MP.


I didn't post a link Wink but here is the thread on my forum about it with a downloadable letter as an example, in the second from last post on the page by Nylonadmiral.
http://www.suzukiclubuk.co.uk/forum1/viewtopic....0177&start=10

Please don't just send the letter as it is, instead just use it to help you write your own personalised letter, this will have the biggest impact.

You can find who your MP is at https://www.writetothem.com/

Try and post a hard copy as a letter rather than an email. You do not have to pay for postage on letters to Members of Parliament. This means you don't have to buy any stamps, just put it straight in a postbox.

Here are some tips:

Address them properly: - e.g. Refer to them as John Smith MP or whatever their full title is.
Be coherent - As tempted as you may be to get angry over such an emotive subject, remain polite and carefully articulate your points.
Personalise it - If you can, incorporate local or personal examples to support your argument.
Keep a copy - This way you will have something to refer back to when you get a response from your MP.
Post your response - That way everyone will a) know who was awesome enough to take action and b) know which MPs are pro/anti vehicular rights of way.
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NylonAdmiral
Gate Opener


Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Odometer: 12
Location: Wiltshire



PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know Privateer, it's pretty grim.

Like you say, if you look at it from their point of you, they already have a lot of ammo, particularly because the anti's are characterised by little old busy bodies with plenty of time on their hands and the ability to form coherent arguments, lobby government, and leverage their friends in high places.

Unfortunately, the 4x4 community is characterised by illiterate retards who seem insistent on posting pictures of themselves trashing everything.

The reality is that this is only a small percentage of byway users and that most offroaders hate those people.

I agree with you that the outcome doesn't look good. At all.

However I still intend to do what I can about it, however insignificant. The sad thing is that if people in the 4x4 community actually got off their arses and tried to do something we might actually stand a chance. It'll be the same people crying and moaning once everything gets banned too.

Anyway, glad to hear that you're one of the people who actually are doing something, good luck!
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ScottieJ
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ones that tarnish the 4x4 reputation by trashing lanes and going off-piste don't care where they go anyway so even if all the byways were closed it would not stop them thinking that they can drive anywhere they please. They would just carry on as they do now.
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ed
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Odometer: 4312




PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not surprising that there gas been an increase in support for the anits given increasing in the number of yobs in baddly tricked up / barely road legal wrecks that pass through here.

There is a noticable increase in using lanes as if they were p&p sites and not respecting locals ie not dtiving sensibly through village / obeying speed limits especially in front of the school.

As someone that was vocal against NERC, even standing for the Dales Access Forum I'm more snd more siding with the antis.

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And things that don't explode
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Xpajun
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Odometer: 3245



1988 Mitsubishi Shogun

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ed wrote:
Not surprising that there gas been an increase in support for the anits given increasing in the number of yobs in baddly tricked up / barely road legal wrecks that pass through here.

There is a noticable increase in using lanes as if they were p&p sites and not respecting locals ie not dtiving sensibly through village / obeying speed limits especially in front of the school.

As someone that was vocal against NERC, even standing for the Dales Access Forum I'm more snd more siding with the antis.



I think that you are going to find that the more lanes that get closed the more idiots you'll see driving them - legal or not
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Privateer
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we all know that there has to be some kind legislation if we are going to keep our lanes usable, tread-lightly is great for those of us who care, but if we want to win this we have to go further IMO. I'm in agreement with Alan Kidd the editor of TOR in his April column and perhaps that should be put forward in our future arguments, we have to show that we can change to suit every user group, we need to find middle ground.

PS letters away to two MP's
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simon_pryce
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Odometer: 1937
Location: Watford



PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wrote to my MP and got this back.

.....
I have read your letter and forwarded your concerns to the Secretary of State for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. I have requested that he look into your concerns and write back to me outlining the Government's position on the points you raise.

I will let you know the moment I receive a full response to my letter

.....

I was pleasantly surprised, ours isn't known for his interest in matters like this. My previous MP wasn't a lot of help with NERC1 but its got to be worth a try, at least I'll have a right to complain if we lose it

__________________________________
When you can see the tree you are about to hit it's called understeer. When you can only hear and feel it it's oversteer.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's Mine






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