FORUM CLASSIFIEDS DIFFLOCK.com Links & Networks
Forum Homepage
Log in
Profile
Search
Private Messages
Forum Members
Register
Classified Ads
Search Ads
Place New Ad
My ads
Place your classified
ads here for FREE
NB: Adverts placed in the general
forum areas will be deleted
Difflock Homepage
Online Shop
Contact Us
FAQ
Calendar
Garage
Facebook
Twitter
Youtube
Advertise With Us - Reach your target market by advertising on the Difflock.com forum.
Click here or call 0845 125 9407

4site4x4tyres.co.uk

Gearbox issue?!

 
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Difflock Forum Index -> Mercedes & Unimog
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Nicmenicnic
Gate Opener


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Odometer: 5




PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Gearbox issue?! Reply with quote

Gear problem???
Hi after being new to move I thought it might be me and just getting used to the box on my 404.
I've gone to drive it today and can't get it in to any gear with the engine running. If I start it in gear it will start but with lots of horrible noises. I can't shift to another gear is it won't go in to any. With the engine off I can only seem to get it in to low 1st and 2nd...it won't shift over to the right without exsessive force?!!! If I wiggle the shifter brown sludge squirts out of the centre of the stick?!

The guy I bought it from said he jettwashed out the bell housing the day before I collected it as he said it was creeping forward when in gear due to some mud getting in there......
Any clues on what this could be????
Or what I can do to fix this???

Any advice would be great, thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dxmedia
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Odometer: 2185




PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll get a lot more quick replied on your benzworld post. For future reference here though, start by taking off the inspection plate on the bell housing and seeing what's what. The brown sludge is water in the gear selector. Has it been parked outside without the rubber bung on the end of the selector?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
minimog
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Odometer: 1700




PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds like the clutch preasure plate is stuck to the flywheel or the atuating arm is siezed might be worth getting underneth while some one presses the clutch pedel to see if its moving also i would check the gearbox for water if you havent got the creeper box(mounts to the bottom of the gearbox) then its a case of drain oil and remove bottom plate that way you can see all the gears from underneeth
__________________________________
WHAT YOUR ASKED WHEN YOU OWN A MOG
"why have you put a merc star on that"
UNIMOG MOTTO
"IF IT CARNT BE FIXED WITH A BIG HAMMER"
IT MUST BE AN ELECTRICAL FAULT"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Turnip
Just got MTs


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Odometer: 192
Location: Gloucestershire



PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Creeping? Reply with quote

Id be smelling a bit of a rat if I were you? Does the guy you bought it off actually say it was OK before the mud got in? Its 99% certain a clutch drag problem and you really need to sort that before you stuff the box by crashing it in! If the box is standard there is a sequencing device therin which means that after 1 & 2 the next gear you select must be 3! It will not allow going straight to 4,5 or 6.
As others have suggested - get the inspection plate of the top off the transmission tunnel and you can see a bit of whats going on. If you are lucky it might be a bit of adjustment / sticky etc - if not - it may be why he sold it!
The brown sludge bit probably is related to water in the box as DX says and you want to get that out PDQ! and there is quite a lot of it!
Good luck.

__________________________________
Never mistake the edge of your rut for the horizon.........
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nicmenicnic
Gate Opener


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Odometer: 5




PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so I've taken the seat out, floor up and the inspection panel off. It's relatively clean in there but looks a I little rusty? The horrible noise when starting sounds like its the starter motor as its now failing to turn the engine over but making all the noises....
On the dipstick on the gear box it's white and watery!!!!
I tried adjusting the clutch but that's had no effect?!

Obviously a oil change is needed but is this what we think could be the reason for not being able to select all gears with engine off?
Thanks agin for your advice so far Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Turnip
Just got MTs


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Odometer: 192
Location: Gloucestershire



PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Gearbox? Reply with quote

OK - my thoughts are - I have a 404 which is in regular use and even with this you cannot expect to work your way through the gearbox with the engine stopped? It is far far worse when cold and takes ages to get hot! You need to understand this is 60 year old design with wacking great agricultural gears that just dont all line up like that. Although the box does have syncro Id be very surprised if you will run through them like that. I expect your problem lies in the point that DX raised - the usual point of water entry is the rubber cover - or lack of it, on the horizontal projection on top of the box. Water enters here and does a fine job of seizing up the fore and aft and side to side gear stick motion. From there it leaks through onto the shift plate below and causes damage there. I have a shift plate which has the gear dentents rusted away due to this.You could do with talking to the previous owner and finding if it has ever been right? The box is a "heavy" unit even when working well and the side shift from 2 - 3 actually moves a lot of stuff around to achieve this and shift plate rust will hinder you - get the water out fast and get clean in and try and run it to get it warm - you may be lucky! obviously if the water has been in long, you are going to have rusty bearings and a big strip is on the cards! All of this is rather irrelevant though if you cannot free the clutch? Occasionally - and it is a long shot - you can get a dragging clutch symptom when a flywheel spigot bearing has picked up?
In short - I would do a bit of research? if its been sat in a field for 10 years with no hood and the rubber gearbox bung missing - it may be cheaper to look for another box!
Good luck!

__________________________________
Never mistake the edge of your rut for the horizon.........
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nicmenicnic
Gate Opener


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Odometer: 5




PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok thanks for that!
The vehicle has been in use and hasn't been sitting there... I drove this vehicle 20 miles on Monday night and although it was tough I could go through the gears an drive home. The mog has a roof on it so I'm not sure how water would get in apart from the occasionally off road use. I'm sure some thing has seized up during the week?!
I think it's going to be a case of taking the box apart and seeing what's what's. whilst I'm there, it's only a 4 speed box from
What I can work out....are there any upgrades or would I be better off looking for a 6 8 speed box? If so what from???
Thanks, Smile)))
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Turnip
Just got MTs


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Odometer: 192
Location: Gloucestershire



PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:05 pm    Post subject: Gearbox? Reply with quote

As far as I know - all 404 are 6 speed as standard - unless you have the underslung additional crawler box. See attached shift diagram! There are actually 8 speeds in there and they can be accessed - plenty of posts on here under search - 8 speed conversion?
__________________________________
Never mistake the edge of your rut for the horizon.........
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Turnip
Just got MTs


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Odometer: 192
Location: Gloucestershire



PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Gearbox? Reply with quote

And bye the way - if you are new to all this? - if standard, you can only get reverse in 1 or 2!

Phil

__________________________________
Never mistake the edge of your rut for the horizon.........
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Turnip
Just got MTs


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Odometer: 192
Location: Gloucestershire



PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Gearbox? Reply with quote

Just another thought? You havent got the trans all wound up by driving on the road in 4 wheel drive by any chance? Mine takes about 500 yds and it all goes pear shaped!!
__________________________________
Never mistake the edge of your rut for the horizon.........
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dxmedia
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Odometer: 2185




PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you lift all 4 wheels off the ground safely? As on 6 tonne axle stands?

If you can start the engine and see what's what.

Something which has popped into my head is that if someone has put the friction plate on backwards, it can cause a lot of headaches with exactly the same symptoms as you're describing.

For starters though, I'd

Download the full manual from benzworld which I'm hosting.

Drain the oil out of the gearbox.
Put the gear selector in 1st gear.
Undo the ring of (13mm?) bolts from around the top shifer plate - where the gear stick assembly attaches to the top of the gearbox.
If you've not got a PTO (which would be attached on the drivers side of the gearbox) take off the inspection cover.

You'll now, with some light, be able to see inside the gearbox. DO NOT MOVE any of the shifter forks. If there's any emulsified oil in there get some turps / white spirit /gunk / diesel and with a brush, gently clean as much as you can. Hopefully you won't see any rust in there. If you leave the drain plug off, it'll all go straight through the box. Make sure you replace the drain plug before refilling Wink

With the shifter mechanism off the gearbox, take this into your shed, sit on the bed of the mog, **** off the misses and take it in the kitchen and clean the whole thing throughly with a brush and spirits / turps...

Put it all back together. You'll now thank me for saying have the gearbox in 1st and not move any of the selector forks Wink You can find 1st very easily on the selector, and not having gone through the gate into high ratio means it's pretty easy to reassemble. Been there and done that.

If you want to do the 8 speed conversion, nows the time to do it before putting the shift plate back on. There's a very good write up on this forum where is cab be done by grinding a small modification to the shift plate and not needing extra levers

Once the box is back together, fill with GL4 (NOT 5) gear oil. This stuff is very common and cheap. Check your local agri suppliers and it should be about £13 a gallon.


I'd do all of the above before touching the clutch. Get the moisture out and stop any rust before it becomes an issue. You can look at the clutch when you know that the box is good.

The starters on these are not known for problems. If yours is making a hell of a noise it sounds like it might not be disengaging properly. Pull it off and give the benedix (I think it's benedix on them) a really good clean and oil.

Check the clearance on the clutch, and also check the thow out bearing. There's plenty of how to's on youtube and the internet on how to pull it apart and re grease without taking the whole lot apart.

BTW, it's not difficult to pull the engine forward to do a clutch on these. Ignore all of the horror stories about taking the cab off to do one. Just take the rad out, and hitch the engine forward to do it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnhughes
Gate Opener


Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Odometer: 40




PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if stripping out to relubricate the clutch release bearing be aware that the manual says it doesn't always work and disturbing the bearing races makes it worse, i know mine failed after a lub. I'd recommend getting airosol motorcycle chain grease with a long applicator straw and squirting it between the bearing halves without taking the bearing apart, less work, less chance of it going wrong and all you need is a good torch and a bit of patience to lub the bearing in 2 or 3 places! If you do need to pull the clutch buy the bearing and locating / retaining springs as they are often missing. you do not need to remove the cab but the exhaust primary pipe to manifold joint is often a pain requiring losts of WD40 and a lot of careful pulling as the pipe is 1/2 to 3/4 inch inside the manifold which often breaks as a result, you have been warned!!

see;

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/unimog/1686348-...haust-remove.html

Very Happy

j
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Difflock Forum Index -> Mercedes & Unimog All times are GMT - 12 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can post calendar events in this forum
Adrian Flux 2017

Specialist Tools

Facebook

Oil Safe

Service Kits

Join our mailing list for upcoming events, special offers, discount coupons and expert advice on the latest 4x4 products!

* indicates required



4site4x4tyres.co.uk


    
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group