SJ challenge truck

clbarclay · Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:26 pm Post subject: SJ challenge truck

A while ago now I got an SJ413 and decided to get it back on the road. Alas the body is a colander and even on a rotisserie, I had lost enthusiasm with welding it back up Sad

and its now in danger of being called a conversation piece Laughing

Meanwhile the bare rolling chassis kept looked like an ideal base to build a off road only project on and ideas formed Think

Then the clutch went in the grand parents peugeot 405, effectively writing it off, providing a suitable engine and gearbox. Clutches are easier to change out of the car and engine/gearboxes are easier to remove with an angle grinder when they don't have to go back in again Twisted Evil

I still want to get the original SJ back on the road, so I have bought another chassis for this project which can be modified and the build can now start.

So this is where its at now

The 1.9 XUD and manual gearbox from the 405 will fit in between the SJ transfer box and the front axle. This will give a second final drive gear, so in effect it high range will be low range and low range will be very low range.

The engine will go in at slight angle across the chassis so the one drive shaft goes straightish to the Tbox while the front of the crankshaft will be about central. The peugeot gearbox diff will be welded and send power to both Tbox and front PTO winch. Passenger leg room will be an after thought Laughing

The plan so far includes:

parrotveasey81 · Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject:

well there goes my plan for my buggy Twisted Evil

should be good to watch and see what muck ups you make so i dont do the same Razz

i will do mine without the t box Wink

are you going for 1 or 2 seats???

boss · Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:21 pm Post subject:

hi mate long time no speak. have you thought about making your own winch? could use a standard disk on one side of a shortend axle and a winch drum on the other. free spool sortof affair..........what im building anyway....

zep · Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:52 pm Post subject:

high will be 4 time low as normal
what is ratio diff inside peugeot gearbox?

clbarclay · Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:58 pm Post subject:

Don't worry parrot, I'm sure there will be plenty of mess ups with this build.
Its going to have 2 seats, even WBs deserve to sit down occasionally.

Boss, I have taken inspiration from this thread on lr4x4.com and happen to have a spare pair of range rover axles Twisted Evil

The braked open diff is an option, but I suspect it would destroy LR diff gears too quickly and doubling the speed may be a problem with the sort of size drum I want to use. I could always pinch the ARB out of the back of my range rover, though I have another idea which would also interoperate a kind of chatter clutch to prevent over load.

I haven't been able to find the gear ratios online for a diesel 405 and so far have only been able to guess, but I expect the peugeot FD to be between 3:1 and 4:1. I will check the FD ratio when I weld the diff and work out the rest of the gearbox ratios when I change the clutch.

I have a spread sheet which guestimates the flat out top speed in 5th low to be ~15 mph and ~30 mph in 5th high, while 1st low should go down to around 50 ft/min at tick over with 33" tyres.

parrotveasey81 · Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:13 pm Post subject:

this is the 306,cant see the 405 being too much different
http://www.theaa.com/staticdocs/pdf/carreports/...DIESEL_R9407A.PDF

parrotveasey81 · Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:14 pm Post subject:

this one may be better Wink

http://www.205gti.com/techgearboxUK.htm

aniesigh · Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject:

looks like it will be an interesting build Cool

everyone likes to see people venturing out of the box into the unknown Applause

waveydave · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:16 am Post subject:

I'd hate to teach anyone to suck eggs but i hope you haven't forgotten to weld or lock up the pug diff ?

baloo · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:21 am Post subject:

from the first post

" The peugeot gearbox diff will be welded and send power to both Tbox and front PTO winch."

jamie_grieve · Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:53 pm Post subject:

At this stage I'd suggest that running a PTO winch from the crank might be a better idea. Via hydraulics or direct drive with a clutch.
Your setup will have very low gearing but PTO winches generally drive slower than the wheels to avoid the effects on the transmission of effectively being in two gears at the same time if the winch is pulling faster.

Being able to control the winch independently of the wheels is handy too. Every time you dip the clutch the winch will stop running it from the diff but not from the crank.

Just my 2p's worth. Good luck with it!

waveydave · Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject:

clbarclay · Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:44 pm Post subject:

I've got it in the workshop now, but that meant most of the week has been spent rebuilding a cultivator (all those cast iron rings, shafts and large brackets in the first pictures background) to make space for it, so haven't had much time on it, mainly just fitted the axles.

In the first pic it looks like the engine has a masses of space, but its an illusion Laughing

The T box is stuck fast, forcing it forwards, but the PTO winch will need all the space at the front it can get. The front prop shaft is close to having an argument with one of the engine mounts. I expect the seats will have to be staggered and maybe at a slight angle as well because the turbo exhaust is aimed straight where I would like to stick the pedals.

It will fit all Pray

but I will make a start on the PTO winch to check its fit before making the engine mounts. It will have a larger drum than those in the LR4x4 thread (lighter vehicle and lower max pull to suit), and I will retain the disc brake. A job for tonight is to double check the drum size calculations.

Don't worry Dave and don't stop questioning it. I will probably make an obvious mistake or two with this build so no harm in being told how to suck eggs. That's partly why I started the build thread.

I have considered taking PTO drive from the crank, but that would require an additional clutch and gearbox to get reverse. Winch and wheel speed still wouldn't be fully independent either, both linked to engine speed. Hydraulic drive would offer much better control, but at a cost I can't justify.

The plan is to match drum size and gearing to achieve close to 1:1 wheel to winch speed on the top layer in low range. On lower layers (typical winching) the wheels will then be quicker, which will avoid wind up particularly over rough ground with steps and so they get some wheel slip to generate some trust while drive assisting.

Xpajun · Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:43 am Post subject:

clbarclay · Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:48 am Post subject:

It would be tempting not to not bother with the casing, just so it could then become both locked and open at the same time Laughing

parrotveasey81 · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:11 pm Post subject:

any updates???

unimogler · Winch Assistant Joined: 17 Mar 2008 Odometer: 93

hi, iv'e been thinking about the pto winch idea, a clutch and reverse is realy a must have, so i started looking for suitable gearboxes, two options so far, either something off a pedestrian roller, all you would need, cheap and two speed but a bit bulky or my prefered option is a hurth zf marine transmission, compact, forward and revers clutch all on one lever and happy to take as much power as a worm drive winch could handle. any thoughts on this would be realy usful especialy any one that has experiance of these type of gearboxes.

clbarclay · Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:21 pm Post subject:

I wish their were some updates, but within days of starting on this one life got in the way with some more pressing projects. Only update is some of the engine mounts made.

There isn't room on mine to add another gearbox for the winch due to the drum size. Even with the engine brought backwards a rear mounted PTO winch makes a lot of sense. The peugeot gearbox already provides both reverse and a friction clutch, so I'm just going to put a dog clutch into the LR diff or sort out a free wheel clutch on the stub shaft to engage/disengage the winch. It's the same principal as most 4x4 PTO winch, just laid out differently.

clbarclay · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject:

Finally got back to this.

Engine mounts are now finished. One of those jobs where months ago I was constantly umming and erring as to just where it needed to go. Came back to it now and within a minuet said that'll do and got on with it.

I've also had the gearbox off and welded the diff. The pug gearbox breather is a thick plastic plug so no trouble to drill and tap to take a pneumatic fitting. Its going to take a lot of silicone though to seal the bell housing, there are a lot of awkward gaps.

A pleasant surprise was the umpteenth clutch problem that doomed the pug was just a dead release bearing.

octo0072000 · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:17 pm Post subject: sickaflex

might be better using sickaflex to to seal the big holes it's like tiger seal
they glue car wings on with it so make some covers for the holes and glue them in Smile

clbarclay · Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:31 pm Post subject:

That will work for the holes in the sides of the bell housing, but I meant the gaps between engine block, bell housing and starter motor where they mount together. PU adhesive would seal those gaps rather too permanently.