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Curious Fuel problem..... Help needed

 
 
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Fandrover
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Joined: 03 Dec 2011
Odometer: 11
Location: Sunny Surrey



PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:35 pm    Post subject: Curious Fuel problem..... Help needed Reply with quote

Hi all
Sounding a bit like an online dater.....
Long term member, normally helping others now mystified and seeking advice lol

Right, background... I have a 1990 130 defender with Mazda SL35 diesel engine conversion about 12 years ago... Owned for 6years with never a problem

Today was MOT day, failed on a fuel pipe leak, with engine running a very fine fuel mist could be seen escaping from the fuel return line (last 12inches before entering the tank)

Cut out that section and replaced with replacement rubber diesel 8mm bore fuel pipe.... didnt touch any other part/line/or engine bay

Drove back to MOT station and a mile later broke down due to obvious fuel starvation issue..... tried for two hours to bleed system etc, called RAC he did same and got it running for 400yds then back to square one..... Help Please!!!

Any suggestions?
Can getting air in the return pipe actually affect fuel feed to engine?

Thanks in advance Mark
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Turnip
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Joined: 29 Oct 2007
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Location: Gloucestershire



PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:10 pm    Post subject: Fuel leak? Reply with quote

Hi Mark - I have no idea about your particular conversion, but the thing that seems to jump out is that you have fine mist coming from the return line? In every diesel return that I have run the return should be just at atmospheric pressure? That is to say that there should not really be any reason for this line to become pressurized to creat a fine mist? Im guessing that either you have an obstruction in the return line after the break - or the tank is pressurizing due to a venting problem??
If you can get it running - remove the fuel cap and listen for a hiss? If you cant run it - try bleeding without the cap on - it may make a difference?
Just my thoughts!!
Phil

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Fandrover
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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Phil for the fast reply,

I must admit it hadnt even occured to me that it would be pressurised but the RAC guy seemed to think it would be?

She wont run at all now except when spraying a can of easystart into the air intake, but will try turning her over with fuel cap off tomorrow.
I hadnt even considered that the problem may have been there all along (i.e. blockage into tank) and that the leak was actually enabling the system to work, thanks will look at that too
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Turnip
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:47 am    Post subject: Fuel Reply with quote

I would probably start by pulling off the return pipe where you have repaired it and try blowing down the pipe into the tank? If there is any restriction here - I reckon that is your problem?
Go careful with that easy start - it is vicious stuff and although it has its' place in an emergency, the explosion it causes is far greater than that of your normal fuel. I was involved in some monitored laboratory tests using a certain brand some 20 years ago and we found that an over enthusiastic application on an industrial engine actually caused a measurable shortening of the con rod! - not much - but it stopped me ever using it again except on a freezing day emergency!

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smokeyjoe
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just an off the wall guess....

as has been said before the return line normally has a restrictor in it somewhere so that the fuel returning to the tank is at lower pressure.

is there any chance that with your repair you have accidentally removed the restriction causing the fuel to flow back at full pressure leaving low pressure at the injector pump????

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Fandrover
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked
Never knew that about easystart, wish I hadnt watched Mr RAC spray two tins into her now!

Cheers Smokeyjoe... Ive kept the piece I cut out so will check for any signs of a restrictor in it, I may even put it back in and see if that has any effect
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Fandrover
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No sign of a restrictor so will get changed into smelly clothes and check for a blockage I guess Confused



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Turnip
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: fuel? Reply with quote

Mark,
I hope that you find the problem easily, but without trying to worry you I think that you need to send an email to the recovery company you called and log your concern about two tins of easy start. If their opperative has actually done this, he needs a serious bit of retraining to put it politely and if you Google "easy start in diesel engines" you will see a few posts where customers have taken the RAC to task over it.
I do and will continue to use a slight whiff of the stuff if I cannot start a cold tractor and you are stuck, but 2 tins?? Im guessing there was an awful lot of load mechanical clanking and banging while this was going on?
The stuff has its place and it is fitted as standard to some diesels that need cold start assistance - but in a measured dose pump - not 2 cans!! You can contact any diesel manufacturer and they will recoil in horror at that amount.
I hope all goes well and that the fix is straightforward, but you do need to log your concern to cover your backside if future problems develop. As I said - we did extensive tests, but unfortunately I no longer have access to the data - good luck!

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Fandrover
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I cant say thats good news to hear but thanks for the heads up, I'll certainly log it with the RAC tomorrow!

As for today....
Unfortunately it was a wash out
No sign of a restrictor
No sign of a blockage
No sign of a leak
Cleaned and filled sedimentor
Cleaned and filled fuel filter
Replaced section of fuel supply line (next to where original leak was found, in case the supply line was actual leaking hitting return line giving appearance of mist)
Turned over engine, after 60seconds engine started and ran (albeit roughly... similar to a petrol engine only firing on 3 cylinders)
After approx 4mins cut out and wouldn't start again?????????

I'm mystified!!!
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sbautos
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dose the maz engine have a little primer pump like a 200tdi engine? It might be pure coincedence that you acctualy have a inj pump fault? What id do if get a gallon can full of diesel, run a pipe out of that straight to the pump. Start it up/bled etc, if it runs and runs normal then u know you have a problem with the rest of the fuel system. It dose sound to me a typical problem with the sedimentor, if it was mine id bypass it and get it out of the equation forever.
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Fandrover
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually sbautos.... Im begining to think you are very close!

On way to motor factors to pick up a 5m length of diesel pipe, although it was the return pipe leaking, you can see it was rotten.... the supply line is just as bad so for £12 im gonna replace it from tank to pump.... fingers crossed!!
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Fandrover
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well...... Today was a good day!

Sorry to say that I cant tell all those who helped exactly how Ive managed to fix 'The Pig' but she seems to running well again

Today consisted of a trip to the motor factors, two 5m lengths of fuel hose a bag of jubilee clips....... 4 hours of removing all existing fuel lines and replacing them, filling all filters, sedimentary and fuel lines with diesel to avoid airlocks, hand primed, cracked off the injector nuts, a set of jump leads...... 5mins of coughing, spluttering, air bubbles, bleeding....... And SUCCESS!!!!!

Im guessing either the supply pipe was equally rotten and I disturbed it when replacing the return pipe causing a fresh problem,or....
It was always the supply line but being next to the return it looked like the latter.... and I made the leak worse replacing the return and therefore allowing air in???

Either way, a very genuine Thanks to everyone for all help, suggestions and support
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Turnip
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:09 pm    Post subject: fuel Reply with quote

Glad you got it sorted - expect the unexpected eh? I would still log your concern with the RAC though - hope you never need it but it could save someone else? Did you Google it and see that some of their guys have caused real damage using too much go go juice?
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Fandrover
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Logged.... but I must admit with little concern or response from the lady at the call centre, so I'm following up with an email.

Yes I saw the reports, seems Ford diesel owners have particularly been at the rough end of permanent damage from easystart
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