plumbing in a Red Diesel tank

RL12 · Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: plumbing in a Red Diesel tank

hi, i was thinking about plumbing in a Red diesel fuel tank to my 2.8TD Fourtrak as a lot of the time i'm using it off road & for agricultural use and the fuel is costing me a small fortune.

basically i'm not sure where to start as i don't know where/how is the best way to go about plumbing in a second tank/fuel lines/tap etc

thought there might already be a thread on this but can't seem to find anything? cheers

normalbloke · Articulating Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Odometer: 633

I looked into this for the Unimog when using it at off road P&P sites.. Basically, it is illegal. They have the rules quite comprehensively sewn up on this one.

aniesigh · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:11 pm Post subject:

another option could be to have your fuel tank fittings quick release like boat outboard motor fittings, then when you get to a p&p site swap the fittings so it runs from your portable tank in boot, then before you leave swap it back so it runs from your white tank. but make sure you swap back a few minutes before you go on the road otherwise the cherry thats in the system will run back up the return line when you start it and then you will have red in your main tank=big no no

parrotveasey81 · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:16 pm Post subject:

just use veg oil Wink

RL12 · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:12 pm Post subject:

i was thinking of having a T junction with a tap (or 2) in the cab to just switch over from one to the other as nessercery.

appartely... Rolling Eyes

(everyone rolls eyes) as long as you have white diesel receipts to prove you still buy white then the authorities can't do anything.

maybe cooking oil might be an easier option.....

normalbloke · Articulating Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Odometer: 633

nivapilot · Guest

I was under the impression that red diesel stains evetrything in the fuel system? and therefore you could still be prosecuted, even if you had road derv in the system at the time of stoppage?

aniesigh · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:53 pm Post subject:

i'm not too sure about that, but they'd have to be really convinced you had been doing it and really want to do you for it to go to that much length. normally they just dip your tank, if its white let you SPAM its red confiscate it!. don't fancy being the guinnea pig of that theory though Laughing

normalbloke · Articulating Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Odometer: 633

This from HMRC website today( I know it specifically says "tractor". I did find a page going into far more detail previously, and not tractor specific, but am not going to put too much more time into this for fear of losing the will to live!
"Can I fit additional tanks filled with white diesel to a tractor to allow it to run on the public highway?

No - it’s illegal to connect separate tanks containing red and white diesel to the engine that propels the vehicle. Dual tank systems that can switch from a red diesel to a white diesel tank are not permitted."

Page link if you have trouble sleeping.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp...pe=document#P4_62

normalbloke · Articulating Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Odometer: 633

I found it, if you really,really have issues sleeping....

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp...ertyType=document

Nathaniel · Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:23 pm Post subject:

Twiss · Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:55 am Post subject:

Get one with an obscure fitting and adapter...

Then hide the adapter somewhere Wink

How about this... could you install a different tank for your regular diesel..
One where the fuel pipes go into the tank cap...

... then have a jerry can with the same lid attachment?

That way it's not really an extra tank is it...?
Keep it in the front footwell and say you're putting it in your tractor...

It's a bit dodgy though!

scut44 · Guest

HMRC employees are actually quite well trained for the job they do.

(well the ones i have dealt with were,
thats other than the muppets that wanted to dip the tanks on a diesel converted to a petrol engined vehicle running on LPG,'there was no petrol tank at the end of the filler pipe',
then they said they wanted to open the LPG tanks)

5 -7 days a week dealing with people trying to avoid pay duty & taxes must show them every dodge there is i would imagine.

You can carry rebated fuel to run stuff on your vehicle other than the engine.
You can be pretty sure that if they are going to be looking, then they will find your adapters, junctions, connectors, tanks or hidden means of running your vehicles engine on road on rebated fuel.

george

Twiss · Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:28 pm Post subject:

Yeah I think the adapter idea may not work so well...

The jerry can idea you might be able to get away with...

Could they really prove that you had deliberately bought a tank with the same nozzle as a jerry can?

Also, that way you can leave the jerry can(s) either empty or at home unless you are planning on driving on private land off road.

Then there's nothing they can really do you for is there?

scut44 · Guest

Yes there is. Wink

They have getting around to checking legit farm/work vehicles & quads, fuel tanks etc in my area for 2 years now.
All just as part of checking farm security & giving advice you understand.
Amazing how far up a beaten track they sometimes appear.

george

Twiss · Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:52 pm Post subject:

I guess it depends where you are...

I have a couple of friends who have dairy farms with many red diesel vehicles.
They're never on the road but only 1 person I know has had their tank dipped around here... it was on a (petrol) SJ and he let them continue for half an hour until they worked out that it was petrol. Laughing

I'd think though, if you were going to use red diesel, using the jerry-can-fuel-tank-lid method. If they pulled you when on the road, and you had a tank full of regular diesel, with no red diesel jerry can, they couldn't really do you for it.

Otherwise by the same logic they could say anyone with an inboard tank with a removable cap has been using red

Just as long as you flush the fuel system with clean diesel between switching...

cai876 · Just got MTs Joined: 29 Jul 2008 Odometer: 110

The fine is £500, it doesn't take long to save that. The chances of getting dipped is so low and the chance of them dipping you and going to look for and finding a second tank that is hidden a bit is 0.

scut44 · Guest

Have you got some links to it being a £500 fine?

Courts may impose fines if you want to go there.

HRMC impose Penalties & i have only seen fines like £500 mentioned on TV programmes.
(Look very understanding in Ireland when the cameras are on them.)

IME in the UK they seize & investigate then calculate the extent of the evasion & impose an appropriate penalty.

If you disagree it is up to you to prove that they are setting the penalty too high.

george

frostie · Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:25 pm Post subject:

gone are the days of dipping tanks, they take it from under the bonnet..there seems to be 2 ways that people get caught...

if a copper even suspects your running on red he will have it recovered/impounded then customs will come down to the compound, take a sample and then your motor tends to get dragged to one of the big compounds at the docks (immingham, harwich etc).
.until your court date..dont worry though they will let you pay for the recovery/storage!

or they set up a roadside checkpoint and pull people in..then the same thing happens...

if there red (or green) diesel contamination is low (meaning your not running on it at the time) then they sometimes fine you on the spot..

but you might not get pulled over.....

a few weeks ago i took a 58 plate audi to a compound..when i asked the owner why he ran a nearly new motor on red he just shrugged and said he thought theyd never pull a new motor in!

markieg31 · Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:40 pm Post subject:

depends where you are and how likely you are to be dipped.
its just luck

my truck only cost 600 quid so the amount i have saved over the years would easily pay for the vehicle!

but i do get nervous :s