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teamtom Articulating
Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Odometer: 851 Location: East Sussex
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject: Bam Bars (to stop axle twist) info archive?
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Hi all, the main Idea of me posting this thread is not to be annoying and ask about bam bars, but If we could all post pics and ideas of our bam bars we have made and get Nat to stick this thread in the INFO ARCHIVE to try and prevent the question being asked over and over again.
So guys, Lets see you bam bars. (to stop axle Twist)
Tom
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Diesel Destroyer Mud Obsessed
Joined: 27 Jan 2006 Odometer: 6921 Location: Under the truck covered in EP90
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Andy B Mud Obsessed
Joined: 09 Apr 2004 Odometer: 3422 Location: Wirral, NW
1992 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:38 am Post subject:
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billavista anti wrap bar
__________________________________ (can't cut straight) - Differs Tart #1
'92 Sammy with a few subtle mods |
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jeremy Just got MTs
Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Odometer: 467 Location: Lydd Kentshire
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject:
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Some of mine.
__________________________________ Nissan patrol, Jimny. |
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teamtom Articulating
Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Odometer: 851 Location: East Sussex
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mitchy1 Winch Assistant
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 Odometer: 79 Location: cornwall
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:49 am Post subject:
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Anyone else done this with pics ?
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CiaranFox09 Just got MTs
Joined: 09 Dec 2008 Odometer: 364 Location: Charleville Co. Cork Ireland
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:33 pm Post subject:
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Mine takes the abuse of 16v and 4.9:1 transfer no probs made a huge diffrence way more traction at the back now and no axle hop like i used to get.
__________________________________ W.I.P Sj 413 Safety divices Roll cage,
,S.P.O.A,Cobra Seats, 235/85/16 Recip Maxi 3ds, Winch, rocksilders, trail tough t-case gears, 1.6 16v MPFI, |
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mike harris Articulating
Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Odometer: 649 Location: BORDON, HAMPSHIRE
1992 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:06 pm Post subject:
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You don't need one.
Mike
__________________________________ samurai van, 34'' simex's, SPOA, RUF, OME front springs, iron man rears, 1.6 16v MPFI, 5.125 diffs, 5.1 trail tough t-box, v6 power steering, lwb vented front brakes, rear discs, lockers F+R, rock assault shafts + CV's, external cage, warn m8000... |
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tomazuki Just got MTs
Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Odometer: 139 Location: cornwall
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject:
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agree with mike harris
. after all the stick everyone gave him last time about needing one i never needed one for mine and that had a td in it. i bought one and it just sat on a shelf springs where the same as when i bought them.
dont know about standard sammy springs tho
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mike harris Articulating
Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Odometer: 649 Location: BORDON, HAMPSHIRE
1992 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:40 pm Post subject:
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point proven.
but to further justfy......
my nissan navara..... rear spoa...... no silly bam bar...
toyota hilux......rear spoa...... no silly bam bar...
ford ranger ect the list goes on and on.....with 4x4's WHICH DONT HAVE BAM BARS!!!!
so your suzuki certainly doesnt need one as it wont have half the power of any of them !
the only reason you would use a bambar is if your spings are not man enough, or you dont have bump stops which allows the sping to bend too mucha and bends and then destorts the spring.
awner is, put uprated springs on it, very short stuby spoa saddles, and bump stops that hit before the sping is completely flat or bending the wrong way.
mike
__________________________________ samurai van, 34'' simex's, SPOA, RUF, OME front springs, iron man rears, 1.6 16v MPFI, 5.125 diffs, 5.1 trail tough t-box, v6 power steering, lwb vented front brakes, rear discs, lockers F+R, rock assault shafts + CV's, external cage, warn m8000... |
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CiaranFox09 Just got MTs
Joined: 09 Dec 2008 Odometer: 364 Location: Charleville Co. Cork Ireland
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:00 pm Post subject:
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Bam bars are not silly when u combine more power and lower gearing than suzuki ever intended and then go and mount the springs over the axle on which there is more leverage on the springs and combine that with bigger tyres something will give resulting in wheel hop or severe wrap causing the prop to bind.
I drove mine for ages standard 1.3 and i would get pretty bad wrap going up hills with the anti wrap bar i have alot more traction and can dump the clutch with out a worry.
A big difference between a spoa zook and a navara or a hilux is that they have a lot of time and money put into developing there suspension and they use spring with overload leaves and anti wrap leaves .
Oh and i think that longer preches would be better to stop wrap than short stubby ones.
__________________________________ W.I.P Sj 413 Safety divices Roll cage,
,S.P.O.A,Cobra Seats, 235/85/16 Recip Maxi 3ds, Winch, rocksilders, trail tough t-case gears, 1.6 16v MPFI, |
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mike harris Articulating
Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Odometer: 649 Location: BORDON, HAMPSHIRE
1992 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:11 pm Post subject:
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Longer perches reduce flex,
And mine has 5.1 box, 5.125 Diffs and no silly tramp bar,
And a 1.6 16v, it will have no wrap, Paul ruddick never had one? He drives his Suzuki quite hard, never had a bam bar?? He had, 34s spoa 4.1 box and 3.9 Diffs. No wrap.
Mike
__________________________________ samurai van, 34'' simex's, SPOA, RUF, OME front springs, iron man rears, 1.6 16v MPFI, 5.125 diffs, 5.1 trail tough t-box, v6 power steering, lwb vented front brakes, rear discs, lockers F+R, rock assault shafts + CV's, external cage, warn m8000... |
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mike1987 Just got MTs
Joined: 11 Jan 2011 Odometer: 116 Location: cornwall
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:23 pm Post subject:
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how would longer perches reduce flex?
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mike harris Articulating
Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Odometer: 649 Location: BORDON, HAMPSHIRE
1992 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:30 pm Post subject:
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i dont know rob storr told me it did, i suppose it allows more of the leaf to move?
not sure, he is the man who knowes so i would go on what he says.
sorry if i that came the across the wrong way about anti wrap bars, but i just dont see the point in them.
if you have one and like it and you think it works, fair play, each to there own.
miek
__________________________________ samurai van, 34'' simex's, SPOA, RUF, OME front springs, iron man rears, 1.6 16v MPFI, 5.125 diffs, 5.1 trail tough t-box, v6 power steering, lwb vented front brakes, rear discs, lockers F+R, rock assault shafts + CV's, external cage, warn m8000... |
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ScottieJ Guest
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:54 pm Post subject:
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Mike no offence but if you haven't driven your sj with the current set up how do you know you will not have any axle wrap yet? you might not but then again how do you know until its had thrashing offroad?
As Ciaranfox says 4x4s that come from the factory spoa are set up with springs that are designed to be used with spoa, If you look under an old leaf sprung hilux you will see an anti wrap bar on the front axle to stop axle wrap under heavy braking. I know of people who have added rear anti-wrap bars as well who have instantly felt an improvement in how the power is put down.
If you want to run supple springs that will flex well, not H/D stiff springs that break your back with a harsh ride offroad then you will need one!
Longer spring perches do help as the surface of the perch is spread further along the spring, meaning it will take more torque and leverage to 'twist' the springs
It all depends how you want your set up to work at the end of the day.
Last edited by ScottieJ on Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mike1987 Just got MTs
Joined: 11 Jan 2011 Odometer: 116 Location: cornwall
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:06 pm Post subject:
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when i was spoa i did not use an anti wrap bar but if i kept it spoa i would of fitted one as when i wanted 2 give it some stick the back axle would hop and i would have to ease off or i would end up breaking it fitting one properly so it still allows the axle to articulate is surely not a bad thing and can only do more good than harm
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mike harris Articulating
Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Odometer: 649 Location: BORDON, HAMPSHIRE
1992 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:34 pm Post subject:
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Someone tell me why Paul never had one then?
Ok, the point I was getting across is that you dot HAVE to have a bam bar, like you said, trucks don't, they have been setup properly,
Set up a Suzuki properly and you Don't need one, like Pauls.
Or was Paul running an imaginary one?
__________________________________ samurai van, 34'' simex's, SPOA, RUF, OME front springs, iron man rears, 1.6 16v MPFI, 5.125 diffs, 5.1 trail tough t-box, v6 power steering, lwb vented front brakes, rear discs, lockers F+R, rock assault shafts + CV's, external cage, warn m8000... |
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CiaranFox09 Just got MTs
Joined: 09 Dec 2008 Odometer: 364 Location: Charleville Co. Cork Ireland
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Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:31 pm Post subject:
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Mabey this paul fellow just didnt care if he had wrap or not ?
I dont know this fabled "paul" u speak of (done a search on google but i only got facts about the movie paul staring simon pegg)but he must be quite a guy
but if he didnt need an anti wrap bar one no one does
Yeah its just a case of what u want to truck to do or how hard ur going to drive it. And most of the time u will have a bit of wrap even SPUA ones wrap a little bit.
Yeah sure i suppose a lot of people have improperly set up suspension in there zooks but not eveyone here is a "paul" either
__________________________________ W.I.P Sj 413 Safety divices Roll cage,
,S.P.O.A,Cobra Seats, 235/85/16 Recip Maxi 3ds, Winch, rocksilders, trail tough t-case gears, 1.6 16v MPFI, |
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mike harris Articulating
Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Odometer: 649 Location: BORDON, HAMPSHIRE
1992 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:49 pm Post subject:
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Silver zook???
Paul ruddick, just had a chat with him, he never had axle wrap, and I have his old setup.
But like I said, fair enough if you have it.
Mine wont have and will work,
Mike
__________________________________ samurai van, 34'' simex's, SPOA, RUF, OME front springs, iron man rears, 1.6 16v MPFI, 5.125 diffs, 5.1 trail tough t-box, v6 power steering, lwb vented front brakes, rear discs, lockers F+R, rock assault shafts + CV's, external cage, warn m8000... |
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muddymesser Mud Obsessed
Joined: 17 Jun 2008 Odometer: 7819 Location: preston
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Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:55 pm Post subject:
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Darrell Off-Road Guru
Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Odometer: 1580 Location: South Oxfordshire. In the doghouse.
1987 Suzuki SJ413
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Tim Pink Off-Road Guru
Joined: 20 Dec 2002 Odometer: 1938
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:35 am Post subject:
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"Longer perches reduce flex"
True in one sense, longer perches reduce the effective length of the spring increasing its rate thus reducing travel for a given load. Assuming that you increase the load to flex the spring the same you will increase the stress within the spring possibly past its failure point
"Longer spring perches do help as the surface of the perch is spread further along the spring, meaning it will take more torque and leverage to 'twist' the springs"
Separating cause and effect is difficult with this statement, If a short perch has no movement between it and the spring then the only effect of a longer perch is to increase the spring rate as detailed above.
I ran superflexy low rate springs on the racer with 3" perches to reduce the dead zone in the springs. I had a tuned 16v and had no axle tramp even when side stepping the clutch at 3500 rpm. (I used this as a startline technique for a couple of races, in the end I decided it was just too hard on the driveline for the gains)
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silver zuk Off-Road Guru
Joined: 10 Oct 2007 Odometer: 1800 Location: surrey
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject:
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CiaranFox09 wrote: | Mabey this paul fellow just didnt care if he had wrap or not ?
I dont know this fabled "paul" u speak of (done a search on google but i only got facts about the movie paul staring simon pegg)but he must be quite a guy
but if he didnt need an anti wrap bar one no one does
Yeah its just a case of what u want to truck to do or how hard ur going to drive it. And most of the time u will have a bit of wrap even SPUA ones wrap a little bit.
Yeah sure i suppose a lot of people have improperly set up suspension in there zooks but not eveyone here is a "paul" either |
i havent posted on this thread and would prefer if you didnt mock me about some thing i havent posted
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CiaranFox09 Just got MTs
Joined: 09 Dec 2008 Odometer: 364 Location: Charleville Co. Cork Ireland
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:23 pm Post subject:
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apologies i was only teasing no offence intended To be fair i had no idea who u were or even if you were on this
__________________________________ W.I.P Sj 413 Safety divices Roll cage,
,S.P.O.A,Cobra Seats, 235/85/16 Recip Maxi 3ds, Winch, rocksilders, trail tough t-case gears, 1.6 16v MPFI, |
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. Difflock Royalty
Joined: 19 Jun 2002 Odometer: 40007 Location: Northern Ireland's Gold Coast
2009 Land Rover 110 CSW
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:28 pm Post subject:
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play nice or the thread gets pulled
__________________________________ Bert the Defender 110 XS - because it's Cool (work it out yourself!)
Lolita the Lightweight
???? the V8 90 CSW
Suzuki DL1000 V-Strom - yes that's right, I have a Zook! |
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silver zuk Off-Road Guru
Joined: 10 Oct 2007 Odometer: 1800 Location: surrey
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:33 pm Post subject:
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. wrote: | play nice or the thread gets pulled |
thats fine with me pull the thread there just being twats
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rockwatt Off-Road Guru
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Odometer: 1542 Location: North lincs
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:42 pm Post subject:
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A bam bar is certainly beneficial on a lifted vehicle be it spring over or under due to the extra curvature in the springs that encourage axle wrap. The extra bend in the springs give wrap a head start.
Mike when I removed paul's (or should I say lord Paul pmsl) springs I found a broken leaf ! Maybe a bam bar would have aided the longevity of the spring pack.
And yes longer/taller perches do decrease flex ! The further the axle moves away from the springs the leverage the axle has over the springs decreases and reduces flex. And really high perches will bind the springs in the sideways plane.
That should kill this thread off
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silver zuk Off-Road Guru
Joined: 10 Oct 2007 Odometer: 1800 Location: surrey
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:45 pm Post subject:
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lol at richard
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silver zuk Off-Road Guru
Joined: 10 Oct 2007 Odometer: 1800 Location: surrey
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:48 pm Post subject:
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rockwatt wrote: | A bam bar is certainly beneficial on a lifted vehicle be it spring over or under due to the extra curvature in the springs that encourage axle wrap. The extra bend in the springs give wrap a head start.
Mike when I removed paul's (or should I say lord Paul pmsl) springs I found a broken leaf ! Maybe a bam bar would have aided the longevity of the spring pack.
And yes longer/taller perches do decrease flex ! The further the axle moves away from the springs the leverage the axle has over the springs decreases and reduces flex. And really high perches will bind the springs in the sideways plane.
should kill this thread off |
rich the broken leaf was from a front spring
thats becose i ran dodgy d-flex shackles lol
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mike harris Articulating
Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Odometer: 649 Location: BORDON, HAMPSHIRE
1992 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:59 am Post subject:
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I am not arguing with what you say rich !
My point was you don't have to run a bam bar.
But this has got a bit out of hand !
Mike
__________________________________ samurai van, 34'' simex's, SPOA, RUF, OME front springs, iron man rears, 1.6 16v MPFI, 5.125 diffs, 5.1 trail tough t-box, v6 power steering, lwb vented front brakes, rear discs, lockers F+R, rock assault shafts + CV's, external cage, warn m8000... |
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