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"Mogster" A from Denmark (now also in custom build
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jeepmadmike
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 08 May 2005
Odometer: 4573
Location: between 6000+7000 rpm and Devon



PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hybrid mog! That will keep the greens happy!!!
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Land Rovers are the root of all evil!

Now i have gone and bought a D4!

one day i might buy a 86" series one like my dad had when i was a boy.
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RobotMan
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Odometer: 251
Location: Bishop Auckland



PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jet engine on the bed?
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Rob (Robotman) Taylor.
MonkeyMotorSport
Big Dog Engineering
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Alex90
Articulating


Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Odometer: 861
Location: preston, Lancashire



PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

would a 3 litre straight 6 diesel out of a G wagon fit without too many problems? my logic being there both military vehicles made by the same company so maybe things like bolt patterns are the same? sorry i dont know much about mogs apart from they look seriously Cool
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RobotMan
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
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Location: Bishop Auckland



PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something narrow with both manifolds on RH (passenger side of lhd Mog). You struggle to get room for the pedals otherwise.
There is surprisingly little room in a 404 cab.
'Mog clutch and bellhousing are let's just say tricky too!

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Rob (Robotman) Taylor.
MonkeyMotorSport
Big Dog Engineering
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s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it is surprisingly tricky, this 404.. It's like they made the drivetrain with the desired engine, and then wrapped the cab around it as closely as possible! But the real problem is that there's not much room inside the cab as it is, so the more you cut it up to allow more room for the engine, the less room you and your passenger will have.
Would love to have a 6 cyl. merc diesel in it but they are huge! So I might as well stuff a V8 in there..

Hmm.. this is no easy task, but keep the idea's coming, remember nothing's too stupid Wink

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Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
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Blue dragon
Just got MTs


Joined: 12 Mar 2009
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Location: Midlands UK



PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the look of the older Mogs, great truck.

I think the most sensible way forward is to lower the gearing in the transfer case. A RockLobster type mod could be possible where you cut the teeth of the Hi range gears and weld on super Lo range .. the Lada Niva guys have done a similar thing.

I was always a bit scared of hacking into gearboxes, but having done so a couple of times now I would encourage you to have a go !

Mark

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Builder of Citroen / Suzuki lightweight rock crawler and super lightweight Bike engined 4x4 buggy
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cynic-al
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Odometer: 6051
Location: scunthorpe


1989 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure about running through the PTO as your driving the box the wrong way, the gears could be cut wrong and what RPM is the PTO designed to run at? Usually they are geared down to a few hundred rpm. Most gearboxes are around 1:1 in top gear so you'd be increasing speed and losing power.

what about the toyota / nissan / merc 6cyl diesels / petrols. Might be an easier fit in the space you have than a rover v8 and probably more powerful and robust. They also had RWD / 4wd versions so you might be able to run a stock gearbox too.

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minimog
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thats the problem with the mogs the dont have a hi/low bit in there in the first place its just a six speed box and the first and second are the low gears
to help a little do the 8 speed mod on the shift plate it will unlock to extra gears in the box and gain a set of four offroad gear and a set of four road gears
another way would be to look for early 411 portals they are slightly lower geared than its bigger brother(so ive heared) also the 411 gear box is geared slightly different(again so ive been told) and a mod for making the little 411 go quicker was to swap in a 404 gearbox (standard 411 hit 28mph and with a 404 gearbox hit 40mph so might be worth a look

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WHAT YOUR ASKED WHEN YOU OWN A MOG
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RobotMan
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Odometer: 251
Location: Bishop Auckland



PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dare I say it, fit some sensible tyres!
Could a square cab box be squeezed in? They are big money though.

Nissan LD28t perhaps as per thread in 'Mog forum?

For the non Mog knowledgeable people not only is there no transfer box but also via the torque tubes it is also the suspension link mount too. Hugely effective but it doesn't readily lend itself to chopping and changing.

I only run little 37" on mine but it manages quite well. Keeps the total weight down too which is good.

If I was given a set of 49"s I'm sure I'd be tempted to squeeze them on. Very Happy

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Rob (Robotman) Taylor.
MonkeyMotorSport
Big Dog Engineering
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Blue dragon
Just got MTs


Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Odometer: 180
Location: Midlands UK



PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember on the farm as a boy, we had a muck spreader with a driven axle .. you were supposed to connect the PTO to wheel speed but if you stuck it in PTO Hi you could get about 45mph out of the rig, with the spreader driving the tractor ... don't tell anyone will you.
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Alex90
Articulating


Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Odometer: 861
Location: preston, Lancashire



PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

would a perkins engine out of something like a manitou or other farm vehicle fit as they are quite compact. abit of a crazy idea but if your having issues with an engine being too tall have you considered a dry sump set up? that way you can sit the engine much lower in the chassis as theres no sump to to get in the way. not cheap but might be something to consider?
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s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great advice guys! Applause
Re. driving the truck through the PTO: It is straight cut gears everywhere so wouldn't mind about direction. It is geared approx 4:1 compared to the engine. My plan was to run the RV8 through an automatic gearbox and a transfer box (LT230) this would gear it down to the approx matching speed on the PTO, which would then gear up because its running the gearbox instead being run by it. Now I know that through gearing up, you loose a lot of power, but by putting the engine on the bed of the truck I could, essentially, hook any engine I would like up to drive the truck.

Re. Jap diesels/petrols, they are big, VERY big. So that means cutting a lot, and hooking a very big engine up to the tiny Mog clutch would make me very unsure.. Besides I'm not really a fan of Jap engines, they seem to be over engineered and wee expensive to maintain. But thats just me..

Interesting facts about lower gearing on 411's, have had a look on some 411 portals that my mate has, but they where the same gearing as 404.
And changing the gearbox is quite a lot of work, I don't think the input shaft has the same length on a 411? so this would have to be swapped over.

Yes I know these tyres are the cause of my headaches, but honestly, I can't just take them off and put them away now can I?? Very Happy

Have just installed the PTO today, because I had it laying around and was working on the cab anyways so it was easy to install the extra gear lever. The PTO and the gears it connects to are really beefy, so wouldn't be afraid of hooking an electric motor to it, actually have a mate who's wise on that sort of electrickery, might give him a shout. Do fear the cost though..

Another thought I had was on the VM diesel engine. Now I know they suffer from blown headgaskets, but they run really smooth and pulls well and I believe they have been fitted to mogs before, anyone knows about this?

Cheers guys!

__________________________________
Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
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s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Alex, you where typing while I was Smile
Yeah haven't really been able to find many engines narrow enough, but haven't really looked into perkins, we haven't got many of these around in Denmark.

Yes dry sump could be an idea, but you cant really lower the engine because of the way the torquetube works. And it already sits quite low. BUT if I where to fit an engine with a large sump, dry sumping it could save the day

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Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
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Rizla 1
Articulating


Joined: 21 May 2007
Odometer: 656
Location: Berkshire



PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Soren - my god it's cold there Shocked just got back from Denmark after delivering a few cars there and visiting mates - even your harbour was frozen - if you want a 3.9 rover with 4 speed auto - i just brought one over and it maybe for sale ? 1990 vogue the whole car .
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s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi mate, yes unbelievably cold is what it is! And it has been like this for several days now.. I can't keep anything in my workshop from freezing. But I don't really mind it, just put on several layers of close and keep working! Wink
Thank you, but I already have a solid 3,5 with the 3-speed torque-flite on my hands, and in my opinion thats a far sturdier gearbox. Don't know if I'll be going that route though..

__________________________________
Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
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RobotMan
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Odometer: 251
Location: Bishop Auckland



PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it weren't so far I'd take the M180 off your hands, just to help you out of course. You could build a raft from those tyres to save storing them.
I don't suppose you have the 1.003:1 LT230 that goes behind the torqueflite by any chance? I need one for my Series project.

Tomcat404 (Nathan) had planned to mate a Twin Turbo Supra motor and autobox to his Mog box but it just became unfeasible and he went to a Rakeway Bulldog instead. If that's easier and cheaper it says a lot.

Is it possible to add an electric oil pump and fit quills to massively improve the Mog box oiling and cooling to then take a bigger motor?

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Rob (Robotman) Taylor.
MonkeyMotorSport
Big Dog Engineering
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s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aw.. you're so kind, willing to help me get rit of my engine Razz
On the transferbox, I haven't bought the engine gearbox combo yet, I just have a mate who's got it laying around. But I'm sure he'd be willing to sell the transfer, but I would think they weren't impossible to track down in the UK? Why such a tall gearing? You're not running small tyres are you? Or is it because of the Series diffs?
Regarding oil cooling on the mog trans, the americans have done what you say many times, and always to great succes. The only real downside is finding a good reliable oilpump for 24V. But of course in the states its an off-the-shelf thing Evil or Very Mad
BUT I have just bought some GL4 gearoil for mine instead of the GL5 that I usually use. When GL5 gets hot it creates sulfuric acid, which eats away everything bronze in your gearbox! It is due to the additives in GL5, and our Mog boxes weren't designed for this. So I have put the oil in it was built for. Have read many good reports on it from the states. Further if you have a series gearbox (I know you don't) it'a also the correct oil as they suffer from the same problems.

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Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
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s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh forgot about the Supra engine.
we have a Nissan GR patrol here in Denmark fitted with a skyline turbo engine. It's revvy as hell but has no low end torque (why would it need it in its intended purpose?) So either he stalls it on the hills or he does it with the front wheels of the ground! Which of course results in broken bits every now and then. He even has the 60% lower geared transferbox in it.
So in my mind not a suitable engine for anything big and with knobbly tyres.
But I have thought about mounting engines up with the gearbox hooked to the mog box, but it just gets soo long. The M180 engine is actually very short for its size..

__________________________________
Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
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tjsuzuki4x4
Winch Assistant


Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Odometer: 90
Location: surrey


1991 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just been looking at the merc 'big six' m186-m198 113-220bhp any use to anyone
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91 vitara fatboy, ORA spring lift,2" body lift, ORA front and rear HD bumpers, ora skid plate and diff guard set, 10000lb winch with dyneema sk60, 235/75/15 maxxis trepador on rhino ray's offset sj 8 spokes.
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s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uhh, their specs actually look quite tasty! But sadly they seem rare and pricey.. You know anyone who has one?
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Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
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s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well still undecided on what to do engine wise, I thought I might as well get some of the other loose ends tied up. So work began on the rear, a lot of cutting and sweating resulted in two big holes in the bed, which then was filled out with two plastic fenders off a lorry:


That was a couple of weeks ago. Today I finished it off with two Arctic Trucks mudflaps as the front has, and two pieces of stainless chain:


Then my attention turned to the rearend as I didn't really like the layout and needed a reversing light/working light. So things was moved around and other things installed and this was the end result:


Best of all was that I was able to use some existing wiring and a switch in the cab that was originally intended for military lights. So the install turned out super clean.

__________________________________
Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
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baxter
Articulating


Joined: 08 May 2006
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Location: Dunedin, New Zealand


1990 Lada Niva

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking for more torque to turn those big tyres but can't easily fit a larger motor - Have you considered super-charging the Mog motor?
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s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baxter wrote:
Looking for more torque to turn those big tyres but can't easily fit a larger motor - Have you considered super-charging the Mog motor?

Hi Baxter, yes have thought along those lines, although I was more thinking about a turbo, as I have a good VNT turbo waiting to be used at something. But the thing is that I'm not convinced it'll give so much torque as it'll give me more HP, And what I really need is torque. If I just let it rev it has plenty of power (ie HP) but lacks very much in the low end. Furthermore I'm not sure the fragile 6-cylinder will be happy being force-charged. I think it's already eating enough headgaskets.. But I haven't dished the idea completely yet. Might do it on a std mog engine as it has lower compression ratio.
And if it works I could sell the 2,3 litre as its quite rare

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Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
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s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, a decision has been made. I'm going to turbocharge the ***** out of a std Mog engine.
Many moons ago I bought a VNT turbo brand new for a very good price. It's watercooled and for a 2,2 engine, so basically perfect for the job.
So today fabrication began mounting it up to the exhaust. I'm not gonna build a full-out custom manifold, as this is going to have to be a cheapo build. Furthermore I'm not sure the Merc engine is going to be very longlived, so not willing to spend huge amounts of neither time, nor money trying to kill it.
Anyways on to the pics:




Next up will be oil feed an return points, and later lines. I'm also going to have to find a clever way to equalize the pressure in the floatbowl with the one in the venturi. If anybody has any experience on this, please let me know.
Cheers Soren

__________________________________
Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
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RobotMan
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
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Location: Bishop Auckland



PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh lordy Soren!
Have you got room for the blower with your cab lift?

Perhaps a sandwich plate pick up behind the filter head?

I just bought Turnips spare M180 btw

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Rob (Robotman) Taylor.
MonkeyMotorSport
Big Dog Engineering
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mike97
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great work Soren,
Its good to see projects done on a budget, not alll of us can throw lots of cash at projects or have access to fancy machine shops.
Keep us posted.

mike
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micky1
Just got MTs


Joined: 23 Dec 2005
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Location: Bath



PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can't beat a bit of BOOST!

renault 5 gt turbos are carb fed,maybe two of those for the fueling

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s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers guys. Yes this will definitely be done on a budget, the turbo brand new didn't cost me more than 200 quid, which is very cheap for a VNT.

Yeah a sandwich plate or some other form of take-off fitting close to the venturi was what I was thinking too. But if it won't work properly I mind end up fitting some injection system off of a junkyard engine. The hard part here being finding a 6 cyl.

I positioned it so far out, because it then sits just over the OS springseat. So in the wheelwell if you will.

__________________________________
Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
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parrotveasey81
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
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Location: bradford on avon (wiltshire)



PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool i love your mog.

just one thing,how are you going to control the vnt turbo??

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s.frimodt
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Odometer: 170




PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. Not decided yet, originally its simply controlled by the boost pressure. But I had to flip the turbo around a bit to get the oil and water inlets pointing upwards, which meant the original diaphragm for controlling it doesn't fit anymore. So its not decided yet how I'm going to workaround this problem
__________________________________
Søren Frimodt Petersen
(Jysk Mog Crawlers)
'64 Mog 404, 49" Nokia MPT's, 120bhp M180, rollcage etc.

'53 Land Rover Series 1, awaiting some minor upgrades
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