200TDi, RR/Discovery axles n parabolic springs into Series

TheBigPurpleOne

Hey guys
ive got a 1962 Series 2 with a 90 2.5 Petrol in that ive just finished restoring...
now out of his wisdom my dads asked me to make it more usable everyday (i did mention this to him when it was a chassis/bulkhead... Rolling Eyes

)

ive got a discovery 200TDi lump lay around so that will see its way in hopefully then i was thinkin about parabolic springs and coiler axles.

for the TDi swap i know i use the series clutch, use the coil wire on the stop solenoid and make a custom exhaust system. Anything else to consider?

for the Parabolic springs im after suggestions as to which type etc?

and for the axle swap i was gna use defender front calipers and series power assisted brake servo/ master so im keeping the original braking system
i know about the clearance issues with the tracking bar so i was thinking built up spring seats and extended shackles?

anything i missed guys? suggestions welcome

TheBigPurpleOne · Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:40 am Post subject:

come on guys surely some have you have got some input? or is this forum dying a death?

another question is when converting to servo assist brakes... can i just unbolt the master cylinder and bolt a servo with appropriate master cylinder in place? or do i need other parts?

do you guys have much knowledge/exerience on the Rocky Mountain SX overdrive?

the whole idea behind this is to keep the classic look and feel (4spd + OD, leafs and manual steering) while making it usable everyday around the farm

mudplugga · Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:35 am Post subject:

The Disco / Rangey pedal box unbolts complete, all the pedals and everything together, so that might be the best option.

I used a complete assembly on my trialer and it made the whole job so much easier, but that was built from scratch and didn't use a series bulkhead.

If you are using the Disco axles and brakes I would highly recommend that you use the matching brake servo and master cylinder so you can pipe the dual circuit brakes.

blanche_90 · Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:43 pm Post subject:

for the brakes use a remote servo (not part of the brake peddle an master cyl) then you can put it/mount it where you want. BL/triumph,etc used to fit em years ago. as for the axles i don't know, biggish job i would imagin converting coil axles to take leaves, usually the other way round. but hay, nothings impossble.
where theres a will an all that!

Let Luce · Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:07 pm Post subject:

tdi conversion is quite straight forward, just a couple of studs are in the wrong place and require moving on the bell housing. Steve parker does a temp sender adapter so the series temp gauge works with the tdi.

Axles, well I know it's been done but never seen the point, just pull the diffs out of the rangy/disco axles and stick them in the series axles.

. · Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject:

TheBigPurpleOne · Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:32 pm Post subject:

mudplugga: i want to keep it as series as possible

Blanche: i was hoping that if it was simple enough i could use the series parts to save having to locate the remote servo in what no doubt would be a cramped engine bay

Chris: thanks for that useful info ill add it to the list
with the Disco axles i wanted to gain a better lock and more stability and disc brakes...

hopefully the axles will be a case of grind the existing mounts off n weld new spring perches on...though the front ones will need to be thicker for the tracking bar to clear the leafs

TheBigPurpleOne · Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:39 pm Post subject:

treeman · Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject:

I think if you change the axles you will need to fit extended arches to stay legal so you will lose the series look anyway.

TheBigPurpleOne · Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:41 pm Post subject:

ill see how it is on standard 750s and rims n if it sticks out majorly ill get the rims offset adjusted or make retro chrome arches or "invisible" arches

my major concern with anything drastic is that its just been rebuilt n painted so i dont want to chop the bulkhead about to fit a disco pedal box when i can use series parts where possible

then plan so far is:

Disco 200TDi + stainless steel exhaust system
Recon series box
Rocky Mountain Roverdrive SX
RR/Disco axles
Series power servo Braking system
Parabolic Suspension (Rocky Mountain any good?)

mudplugga · Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:33 pm Post subject:

but if you fit the axles with the disc brakes, then there might be more ports on the calipers than there are ports on the master cylinder ?

I'm not certain, but it's something to look at.

TheBigPurpleOne · Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:36 pm Post subject:

RR axles have dual line fronts... so i can either fit Defender calipers or T-Piece the lines at the caliper i believe

fixit · Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:10 pm Post subject:

I wouldn't tee the range rover caliper together the whole idea was to give you a split system

And i would be suprised if there is enough displacment from a S3 master cylinder to make them safe You would be better of just putting the diffs in and if it is an 88 put the larger 11"drums with twin leading shoes on from a 109" as long as they are adjusted and service right they will stop you just fine

Then it will look like it's ment to and work like it was designed to

TheBigPurpleOne · Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:57 pm Post subject:

i hate drums full stop...
the axles will go on it... its just working out how

nicks90 · Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:47 am Post subject:

theres a couple of good threads on lr4x4 - including one by LesH about how to correct the front axle so the diff lines up as it should and still gives you the right castor angle.
quite involved...

mudplugga · Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:04 pm Post subject:

UK_Andy · Just got MTs Joined: 20 Dec 2009 Odometer: 301

TheBigPurpleOne · Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:58 pm Post subject:

mudplugga: i think ill try n get defender front calipers then

Andy: i ran the Ashcrofts ratio calculator on it and it would be fine...it means that 60-70 is slap bang in the torque band for cruising with the O/D in

Nick: Could you find me a link to that by any chance?

Paul Woodward · Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:30 pm Post subject:

I did the axle mod on my old Series years ago. It is/was on this forum somewhere!
Anyhow here it is again.

I was running a 3.5 V8, 3.54 diff's and a Fairey overdrive with BFG 235/85x16 tyres. Fine on road but low 1st just a tad high.

To make a neat job all the brackets need to be cut/ground off.
Fitting the rear axle is quite easy. You just need to weld on the spring perches from your Series axle and plumb in the brakes.

The key to fitting the front axle is getting the axle in the correct place to get the caster angle correct and also getting the track rod to clear the leaf springs.
For the track rod to clear the springs you need to use the 2" longer spring hanger plates which were fitted to the 1 ton military models.
After some careful measuring I worked out that the axle needs to rotated clockwise 12 degrees from vertical to maintain a 3 degree caster angle. The Series spring perches need to be ground to fit on the Rangie axle at the correct angle. My 30mm diameter track rod just clears the springs on full lock.

The lower damper mount also needs to be moved forward and up to clear the track rod on full lock. You could probably find some shocks to suit but as mine were nearly new I made up some brackets to lift the top mounting also.

I found that due to the angle of the axle and the position of the diff that I could not use a U bolt on the inside of o/s spring. I made up 2 threaded blocks which I welded to the axle and used studs instead.

I also needed to make longer U bolts for the n/s.

The Rangie axle had vented brakes on the front which I thought was a bit ott and the calipers have 2 pipes on each one. My solution was to use a pair of solid discs which fit on the same hub. I used a pair of Defender calipers which only need a single pipe. The hole spacing is the same but you need to make new shouldered bolts as the mounting thread is 7/16 UNF but the hole in the caliper is bigger at 12mm.

I rebuilt all the calipers and made stainless steel pistons so they should not seize up!

Standard Rangie brake hoses were used front and rear but be careful as they have 10mm x 1 threads where as my Series had 3/8 UNF so I needed to make pipes with a UNF fitting one end and metric on the other.

I am using a dual circuit master cylinder with servo which came off of a Series III 109. This seems to work very well.

The steering will connect straight up if you use the Rangie drag link. Just undo the cranked fitting and screw in the Series ball joint. The length is spot on.

The only other problems are that you may find that your front prop isn't long enough. I got a new one from Paddocks, this had a different sliding joint and works fine.
You may need to trim some metal from the o/s engine mounting bracket to clear the prop on full bump.
As the track is now 6" wider you need to fit arches to cover the tyres. I used Defender ones. Rears on the front and vice versa, they seemed to fit better that way.

There is a safety aspect with this of course. If you are thinking of doing the same you need to be confident in your engineering/welding/fabricating skills. Make sure also that you use the correct grade of steel for bolts etc.

TheBigPurpleOne · Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:11 pm Post subject:

thanks for that perfect reply mate... just what i was after

i have a local fabricator who my mums known from school and we send alot of work his way with all the rare classics so he does good work cheap and im sure those pics would help him greatly rather than the "fit these to that with these" approach lol

thanks for the pics... spot on Very Happy

w3526602 · Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:06 am Post subject:

Hi,

I fitted parabolics to my S1/2/A on S3/88 chassis. It lifted the suspension by about 2", which made it more difficult for my wife to climb into. It also promply wiped the prop-gaiter off on the chassis. My brain hurts trying to work out if shimming the axles will take the seats up or down. Or what it will do to the prop angles.

Surely the TDi engine was designed to pull 3.5 axles and 235 tyres, in a truck weighing substantially more than a Series? Probably 5th gear was higher too. ???

My 1960 S2 88" was fitted with an early Defender TD engine, RR diffs (3.5) and 245/70 (I think) tyres. It pulled like a train, gave 30mpg, fast up hills too. But it didn't like hill starts with 1000kg trailer on the hook. Had to be carefull using LO-cog in such situations. Yes, it might have been able to pull an OD too ..... on the flat (disengage for hill starts), but I wouldn't have thought it worth the cost.

Google ASHCROFT TRANSMISSIONS, see if they still do a 5-speed box with Series transfer box. I got the impression that this cost >£1000 outright purchase, and should be a straight swap. ??? Fitting a Disco g/box is NOT.

Early Series LWB rims were inset, (the outset came later) and look similar to SWB rims ...... might save you 2" off your track.

If you have a turbo, you don't need a silencer, which makes life easier. Your father may disagree ..... like my wife did .... but MOT testers find no problems.

Log onto www.series2club.info/forum ask to be directed to the relevent archives ..... engine and axles.

(Gray) · Guest

If you fit an aftermarket disc brake upgrade kit to your existing Series axles, you won't need to faff about trying to fitting new axles.
Just drop in the RR diffs.

As John says, Ashcrofts offer a kit to bolt a five speed gearbox to your existing transfer box.

TheBigPurpleOne · Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:17 pm Post subject:

i have no intention of fitting a LT77 into the series id rather have a recon 4spd + O/D

200TDi in a series with O/D and 3.54 diffs is a combo that works well as my mates S3 prooves... i dare say its quicker that my 200TDi 90... for now Wink

n my 90 has straight through on it which i love... but i dont think my dad would approve... just have to cross that bridge as it arrives...

the Disc conversion is tempting but i think could do the axle swap cheaper which would give the series a meaner stance (i dont like spacers from previous experiences...)

w3526602 · Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:10 am Post subject:

the Disc conversion is tempting but i think could do the axle swap cheaper which would give the series a meaner stance (i dont like spacers from previous experiences...)

Hi,

Good point.

My understanding is that Series wheels will not fit over disc brakes, but I don't know why. I don't think that Disco wheels will work on a Series, they will fit, but have too much inset. Dont know about Defender wheels. Range Rover wheels need bodging to fit .... hole in the middle is too small.

My S2TD had after market discs (without servo) but was fitted with Weller 8-slot steels.

There is/was a conversion available in Yankee Land which allows coiler swivels to be fitted to leafer axle case. Reputed to be as expensive as buying a proper kit ..... but I fon't know if that was comparing like with like ...... NEW kit with NEW coiler parts.

602

TheBigPurpleOne · Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:54 am Post subject:

602 i cant see why series rims or disco rims wouldnt fit tbh...

n the swivels would be cheaper still if i could make them fit myself... but it would be pain to make the tracking bar clear still but would still have the benefit of improved CVs...

ill buy the axles anyway just for the diffs n see what ill use lol

Let Luce · Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:45 pm Post subject:

UK_Andy · Just got MTs Joined: 20 Dec 2009 Odometer: 301

Let Luce · Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:22 pm Post subject:

I know someone, who did a 200di conversion in his 109, went like a rocket on standard series diffs, it slowed down a lot when he put 900-16's under it though, but still pulls.

SO in short I don't know as I've not tried it, but I'm loving mine just need to be careful of the gearbox.

TheBigPurpleOne · Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:41 pm Post subject:

thats why im keeping the turbo and lookin at recon box...

tbh ive driven the 90 of mine with the turbo pipe blown off... n its totally gutless... n it wud be a similar ratio to a series on 3.5s