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Jack Tatty Mud Obsessed
Joined: 16 Jan 2010 Odometer: 2150 Location: Langholm, Scotland
1991 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:26 pm Post subject: G wagon axles
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hi, im looking to put G wagon axles under my zuke on a coil conversion, to benefit from cheap lockers . bin told the diffs run the wrong way for a zuke, is this both axles or just one?
and could the problem be solved by cutting the axle housing either side of the diff housing and turning the diff housing upside down (yes i know it will be a pain to change the oil but...)
cheers!
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RobotMan Just got MTs
Joined: 06 Jun 2008 Odometer: 251 Location: Bishop Auckland
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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:37 pm Post subject:
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Jack, it would probably be as cheap in the long run and certainly a lot easier to get 80 series cruiser axles.
__________________________________ Rob (Robotman) Taylor.
MonkeyMotorSport
Big Dog Engineering |
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clbarclay Off-Road Guru
Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Odometer: 1779 Location: Worcesterhire
1987 Land Rover Range Rover
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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:53 pm Post subject:
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The front diff on the earlier W460 (first digits of serial number) G wagons rotates the other way most other 4x4s and the rear diff. The rear diff is also almost central rather than offset to the RHS like the front or Suzuki axles. The front diff is also a high pinion type, which is a stronger configuartion on a front axle and allows the track rod to fit higher up behind the axle. Flipping the diff would make it weaker (driven the wrong way) and the track rod would need relocating.
The W460 does have a divorced transfer box like the SJs (also part time 4x4 as well), so it may be easier to change the T box as the axles.
IIRC the diff rotates the same way as the rear axle on the later W463 G wagons. The have a centre diff and permanent 4wd, but I haven't had anything to do with them.
__________________________________ The Lord helps them as helps them selves
and the Lord help them caught helping there selves. |
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Jack Tatty Mud Obsessed
Joined: 16 Jan 2010 Odometer: 2150 Location: Langholm, Scotland
1991 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:33 pm Post subject:
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RobotMan wrote: | Jack, it would probably be as cheap in the long run and certainly a lot easier to get 80 series cruiser axles. |
im trying to work with what is local and cheap. dont know if youve seen the axles on the bay for 800£
Quote: | The W460 does have a divorced transfer box like the SJs (also part time 4x4 as well), so it may be easier to change the T box as the axles.
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ah, well that makes things easier, i thought it was built into the gearbox like a vitara
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RobotMan Just got MTs
Joined: 06 Jun 2008 Odometer: 251 Location: Bishop Auckland
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Jack Tatty Mud Obsessed
Joined: 16 Jan 2010 Odometer: 2150 Location: Langholm, Scotland
1991 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:45 pm Post subject:
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ah, i should have said before, there are front and rear axles in a scrappy 20 miles away from me for about 200£ yes, i would much rather go LC80 or LC70 for the parts availability and not have the bother with contra rotating diffs
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RobotMan Just got MTs
Joined: 06 Jun 2008 Odometer: 251 Location: Bishop Auckland
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Jack Tatty Mud Obsessed
Joined: 16 Jan 2010 Odometer: 2150 Location: Langholm, Scotland
1991 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject:
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yes, but in the highly unlikely chance i break something, am i ever going to find a replacement as cheap.
i say highly unlikely because its a 1.3l engine running 33's, possibly 35's
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aniesigh Articulating
Joined: 15 Jul 2009 Odometer: 795 Location: north devon
1991 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:00 pm Post subject:
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the axles on the bay for £800 are mine and are sold to simon from x-eng pending my deposit turning up in the post so don't get you're hopes up on them! but i have the number of two guys much further up your way who break Landcruisers if thats any use to you? i looked at these options and went for ladcruiser axles for parts/wheel availability and that the G-wagons difflocks are hydraulicly operated so you need actuators for them aswell, i figured in the long run i was probably (hopefully) better off spending out in the first place and getting the 'yota axles
__________________________________ 1990 Suzuki Samurai 1.9TDI (sold)
http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=53747
new truck build thread:
http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?p=595221#595221 |
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Jack Tatty Mud Obsessed
Joined: 16 Jan 2010 Odometer: 2150 Location: Langholm, Scotland
1991 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:04 pm Post subject:
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yes, if you wouldnt mind pm ing me their numbers. it cant do any harm for the cost of a phone call.
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jeepmadmike Mud Obsessed
Joined: 08 May 2005 Odometer: 4573 Location: between 6000+7000 rpm and Devon
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Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:39 pm Post subject:
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Its the rear diff diff that rotates the wrong way
the crown wheel and pinions are the same part number im told by my local merc specialist
hydraulic actuators are dead easy to make
Axles are stupidly heavy! but not as insanely heavy as the arms!
__________________________________ Land Rovers are the root of all evil!
Now i have gone and bought a D4!
one day i might buy a 86" series one like my dad had when i was a boy. |
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dirtydiesel Just got MTs
Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Odometer: 147
1984 Mercedes-Benz G Class
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:00 pm Post subject:
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jeepmadmike wrote: | Its the rear diff diff that rotates the wrong way
the crown wheel and pinions are the same part number im told by my local merc specialist
hydraulic actuators are dead easy to make
Axles are stupidly heavy! but not as insanely heavy as the arms! |
Wrong! (on most counts)
On a 460 the front diff turns backwards. the rear turns the conventional way.
The front and rear crown wheels are very different, the front is a high pinion revese cut with a relativly thin ring gear, the rear is a low pinion conventional cut with a thick ring gear.
I normally use a range rover classic clutch slave cylinders to actuate
them.
G wagon axles really are not that heavy.
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jeepmadmike Mud Obsessed
Joined: 08 May 2005 Odometer: 4573 Location: between 6000+7000 rpm and Devon
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:29 pm Post subject:
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shows how much use asking a merc mechanic is
__________________________________ Land Rovers are the root of all evil!
Now i have gone and bought a D4!
one day i might buy a 86" series one like my dad had when i was a boy. |
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Jack Tatty Mud Obsessed
Joined: 16 Jan 2010 Odometer: 2150 Location: Langholm, Scotland
1991 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:38 pm Post subject:
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well im off to get them at the weekend
so what would you recommend, cutting and flipping front axle?
i didnt get the chance to have that much of a look underneith, but are the t-boxes like an sj/seperate or a vit and built into the g-box? would it work to use the box out of the merc, and solve the the contra rotating diffs?
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THE DIGGER Just got MTs
Joined: 12 Nov 2008 Odometer: 186 Location: Co wicklow, Ireland
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Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:45 pm Post subject:
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Jack Tatty wrote: |
so what would you recommend, cutting and flipping front axle? |
depends on your plans,engine\tyres size there a hi pinion front diff as standard so flipping it will make it a low pinion,also the crown wheel and pinion will loose alot of strength being driven backwards
Jack Tatty wrote: | i didnt get the chance to have that much of a look underneith, but are the t-boxes like an sj/seperate or a vit and built into the g-box? would it work to use the box out of the merc, and solve the the contra rotating diffs? |
yes they use a divorced transfer case....BUT they are a big heavy box compared to the sj's. and also the front drive shaft will be a lot closer to the gear box with a G wagen tc verses the sj one as the input flange and the front out put are very close togeter on the G wagen tc unlike the sj.
over all swapping alxes and tc will be easyer than cutting up the axle and flipping the housing as the difflock slave cylinder will cause some hassle.
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dirtydiesel Just got MTs
Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Odometer: 147
1984 Mercedes-Benz G Class
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:47 pm Post subject:
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Jack Tatty wrote: | so what would you recommend, cutting and flipping front axle?
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You don't actually have to cut the axle case, you need to mill out the plug welds that join the diff casing to the axle tubes, then press the 2 tubes out of the diff casing then press them back in on opposite sides.
But the tubes have to be installed very accuratly, the tubes are pressed in to the diff case by different amounts one each side, this is to keep the tubes equidistant to the side gears in the diff, this equdistance need to remain the same when you flip the diff.
also you need to have the diff lock engagement dog machined in to the other side on the diff center.
you do need to move the diff filler plug to keep the pinion oiled
There are a few other mods but it's been a while since i've pricked about with g axles
mick the digger! wrote: | depends on your plans,engine\tyres size there a hi pinion front diff as standard so flipping it will make it a low pinion,also the crown wheel and pinion will loose alot of strength being driven backwards |
They dont really lose that much strength, At least i never broke one?
The only problems i've heard of from the 8 or so people i've done these for is one guy chewed up the new diff locking dog in the diff, but when i looked at it, his difflock master cylinder wasn't man enough to keep the locker fully engauged.
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Jack Tatty Mud Obsessed
Joined: 16 Jan 2010 Odometer: 2150 Location: Langholm, Scotland
1991 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:53 pm Post subject:
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snow it a ****!!! darent take the trailer down and have that steering the pickup rather than the front wheels
anyway, the front prop issue, the front axle will be moved forward a good 6-8", if it is still a problem then i will modify the gearbox cross member
Quote: | it's been a while since i've pricked about with g axles
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i like the sound of that part over landy axles
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dirtydiesel Just got MTs
Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Odometer: 147
1984 Mercedes-Benz G Class
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:46 pm Post subject:
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Jack Tatty wrote: | Quote: | it's been a while since i've pricked about with g axles
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i like the sound of that part over landy axles |
I smashed too many front shafts and cv's so i fitted unimog axles to my g wagon.
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Jack Tatty Mud Obsessed
Joined: 16 Jan 2010 Odometer: 2150 Location: Langholm, Scotland
1991 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:50 pm Post subject:
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so here you are bigging up the g wagon, and you have mog axles, for shame as it happens, ive found a zuke with yota axles already fitted and tricked up for sensible money. but who knows, depends what santa brings me
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N.R.G97 Off-Road Guru
Joined: 09 Dec 2009 Odometer: 1502 Location: somerset.
1966 Land Rover Hybrid
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