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How to lock a front diff
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4x4rick
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Odometer: 1900
Location: J25 M25



PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im running lockrights front and rear......YES steering can be a problem
IMO
well worth it
PS a steady right foot and ive not broken anything yet (so far)

|R Cool

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scut44
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

muddymesser, you asked what they did before the diff was made?

well before the Spiral-gear differential used by Packard in 1913,
there was the type first used on Road locomotives from 1832
george


.
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durdzz-suzuki-redtop
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Odometer: 2004
Location: doncaster


1987 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

j44gtw wrote:
muddymesser, you asked what they did before the diff was made?

well before the Spiral-gear differential used by Packard in 1913,
there was the type first used on Road locomotives from 1832
george


.

Shocked
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durdzz-suzuki-redtop
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 08 Jan 2007
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Location: doncaster


1987 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

am i right in redaing thr only 200$ off rocky road for front and rear lockrights?
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scut44
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If any euros kicking about in the piggy bank from a holiday.
www.dgtuning.com

Lockright's (350 euro's with couplers)
or 'Quicklock automatic lockers'
& for that locked up feeling,
Minispools, (easy to make for someone with the right employment/equipment)
george


.


Last edited by scut44 on Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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durdzz-suzuki-redtop
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Odometer: 2004
Location: doncaster


1987 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how does a mini spool work?
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lamby2009
Just got MTs


Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Odometer: 271




PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ricardo wrote:
Think Robs got 'even' harder to get hold of, 'Kevin2306' has just got one direct from the states. Rocky road had them i think.

R Cool

i saw rob before xmas he in the middle of revamping his house and i mean mega revamp he said will get back to the buisness at end of jan if does well in the house duty lol , i got an trnsfer box off him was most help ful guy but under an lo of stress with house Idea
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Nigel Head
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 05 Jul 2004
Odometer: 3886
Location: Mid Devon


1990 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lockrights @ ~£150 each = both axles for £300
ARB's @ ~£600 each + compressor @ ~£150 = both axles for £1350-ish

Lockrights are good value for money and can be found second hand fairly regularly.
ARB's are simply the best and are scarcer than rocking horse pooh second hand (you might find one, but all your birthdays will come at once if you find a pair).

I've had both types and Lockrights are OK if you can live with their quirks, ARB's - well, no contest, flick them in or out as often as you want.

Nigel.

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durdzz-suzuki-redtop
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Odometer: 2004
Location: doncaster


1987 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nigel Head wrote:
Lockrights @ ~£150 each = both axles for £300
ARB's @ ~£600 each + compressor @ ~£150 = both axles for £1350-ish

Lockrights are good value for money and can be found second hand fairly regularly.
ARB's are simply the best and are scarcer than rocking horse pooh second hand (you might find one, but all your birthdays will come at once if you find a pair).

I've had both types and Lockrights are OK if you can live with their quirks, ARB's - well, no contest, flick them in or out as often as you want.

Nigel.

i thought you were going? lol cnat resist. im gona run my sj set up till i break something and depending what it is it will eaither get fixed or il be ready to put on yota axels. the bumpyness of leafs is baaaaaaaaaaaaad
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Diesel Destroyer
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Odometer: 6921
Location: Under the truck covered in EP90



PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

durdzz wrote:
Diesel star Destroyer wrote:
Im running front and rear ARBs

When my front is locked.. the steering is near on zero..

So as soon as im unstuck I flick a switch.. diff unlocks.. and bingo.. steering again..

Oh and im running unbreakable CVs (DGTuning)

Wink

I personally wouldnt do it.. but up to you
what engine have you got n are the arbs in sj axels? what size are the diffs?


Pair of ARBs (both rears) £1200
ARB compressor kit £150 ish
Calmini uprated shafts all round £800 ish
DGTuning unbreakable CVs £340

VW 1900 turbo diesel (ORA adaptor plate to Sammy gear box)

The ARB replaces the whole diff.. and is much stronger than stock..

As Nigel says... ARB is the ultimate.. but price is high

Start saving

Id deffo put a lockrite in rather than welded rear diff if used on the road.. think your insurance company might have something to say about solid diff on road Shocked

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xamtex
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Odometer: 11903
Location: nuneaton



PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rocutts..i ran a welded front diff in my old green zook..(with a lockright in the rear).with free wheeling hubs to disengage onroad.....
you will need to fit power steering or it will be very hard work....it worked fine....and i still have the diff sitting in my lockup...(its a 3.9 413 diff...not a 3.7 sammy diff) .....where are you?
i am currently running lockrights front and rear....these provide perfect traction...and for the cost are excellent value.
arbs are the ultimate...but are very expensive.
you pay your money and take your choice?
welded rear diffs on road are NOT lethal...just need to be driven differently. Smile

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carnut
Just got MTs


Joined: 16 Feb 2009
Odometer: 105
Location: BURNHAM-ON-SEA



PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

durdzz wrote:
how does a mini spool work?

a mini spool is a fixed diff (like a welded diff).

http://www.offroaders.com/tech/Lunchbox-lockers.htm
have a look at this,

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james_hillerby
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Odometer: 3316
Location: Aberdeenshire


1989

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diesel star Destroyer wrote:


Id deffo put a lockrite in rather than welded rear diff if used on the road.. think your insurance company might have something to say about solid diff on road Shocked


Thats what I was going to say, have an accident and the insurance find out your insurance might well be void.
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john_sj413
Just got MTs


Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Odometer: 173
Location: eastbourne


1988 Suzuki SJ413

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:47 pm    Post subject: . Reply with quote

not being funny but insurance wouldnt even no unless a clever insurance man/woman jacked up the car and new what they were looking for
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Diesel Destroyer
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Odometer: 6921
Location: Under the truck covered in EP90



PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isnt that why the employ accident investigators and people to inspect the wrecks??

To find any possible reason to not pay out

Shocked

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Ricardo
Articulating


Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Odometer: 797
Location: North Wales



PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diesel star Destroyer wrote:
Isnt that why the employ accident investigators and people to inspect the wrecks??

To find any possible reason to not pay out

Shocked


Excactly right Alan,

Ive been on a couple of vehicle examiners courses and believe me they do know what they are looking for.

R
Cool
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Diesel Destroyer
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Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Odometer: 6921
Location: Under the truck covered in EP90



PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its like all those 17 year olds that put red tops in Corsas for example and think 'no one will ever know'

Yer right.. if its a bad crash the police will take it.. and if there is a death involved they will be all over it like a rash..

Play it safe.. declare every mod to insurance company..

And anything which affects preformance or handling deffo needs to be declared.

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durdzz-suzuki-redtop
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Odometer: 2004
Location: doncaster


1987 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diesel star Destroyer wrote:
Its like all those 17 year olds that put red tops in Corsas for example and think 'no one will ever know'

Yer right.. if its a bad crash the police will take it.. and if there is a death involved they will be all over it like a rash..

Play it safe.. declare every mod to insurance company..

And anything which affects preformance or handling deffo needs to be declared.


they dont the police pulled my freind up in his turbo and looked at the engine n said yeah thats fine, they missed the 2.0 16v deeeeeerrrr
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Diesel Destroyer
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Joined: 27 Jan 2006
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Location: Under the truck covered in EP90



PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was talking about following a fatal crash...

Investigators will look for anything non standard or in bad repair..

I drove my 1380 half race mini round for 2 years and it says 1275 on the log book.. aint a copper alive who can tell the difference between 2 A series engines just by looking.. but if I killed someone in it.. you can guarantee they'd be all over it with a fine toothcomb

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john_sj413
Just got MTs


Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Odometer: 173
Location: eastbourne


1988 Suzuki SJ413

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:04 am    Post subject: . Reply with quote

insurace is well worth it imo tho. i used to have a 315 bhp corsa roll cage ect decleared everything. went from a group 2 to a group 20
pretty expensiv to insure but worth it
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scut44
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If somebody tells you they drive on the road with a welded up rear diff,
Say lets jack it up and see,
Trolley jack under the diff, & turn the wheel & watch them both turn.

If they tell you they drive on the road daily with a welded up front diff,
dont even bother jacking it up.
Tell them they are a 'pants on fire.'

Try driving one on mud with welded diffs,
& then on hard/firm dirt & feel it skip.

On the road the rear wheel on the welded diff feels like it needs to skip at every turn.
Thats because IT DOES NEED TO SKIP AT EVERY TURN.
If you have any weight & are getting any traction your stuffed.
The back ends all over the shop.

I no longer even take quads without LSD's on the road, other than a few hundred yards from track to track.

Too many people online with stories of ,i know someone etc
Drive a proper vehicle yourself with welded diffs before having opinions on them.

An easy way to try is if someone with ARB lockers lets you take it on tar with the lockers locked.

Try the rear first, then the front, then both together.
Thats if you havnt broken something in the first mile.
People talk about transmission wind up often, imagine the forces the transfer box is dealing with, with a welded diff.

george

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ooky_123
Just got MTs


Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Odometer: 236
Location: Andover, Hampshire



PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a quick Question then .. How easy is it to install a Lock right diff ?

Are we talking Major surgery ?
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Rich.
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Odometer: 1165
Location: Newcastle


1998 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mostly agree with you George, driving on road with a welded rear diff is just rediculous, the rear end will want to push the back end forwards when your steering, meaning the understear will be on the edge of uncontrolable, this is the point at which a lockright would unlock.

j44gtw wrote:

If they tell you they drive on the road daily with a welded up front diff,
dont even bother jacking it up.
Tell them they are a 'pants on fire.'


However this statement is not true, a decent pair of free wheeling hubs will allow you to drive with a fully locked front diff. It is mainly the power going through the diff and to each wheel evenly that makes steering difficult, once in 2wd this problem should go away, but as i said, freewheeling hubs will eliminate it compleatly.

However, when offroad with your hubs locked, dosnt mean your always going to be in the soft slippy stuff where you will be fine with a locked front diff, as there are hard terrains aswell, where steering and cornering will become unmanagable. Your other solution is to run twin transfer sticks, this allows you to weld up your front diff, and controll 2wd/4wd and high/low from inside the cab, so you would normaly drive around in 2wd low, meaning you would be fine steering wise, as soon as your about to enter some rough terrain or get stuck, then you can put it in 4wd and carry on with a fully locked front end. this is become a more common solution to the problem.

Rich

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xamtex
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Joined: 02 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ooky_123 wrote:
Just a quick Question then .. How easy is it to install a Lock right diff ?

Are we talking Major surgery ?


from the stickies at the top of the page..........

http://www.nitromax.nl/SAMLOCKER.HTM

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sainter4x4
Just got MTs


Joined: 07 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that sounds like a right faf on rich
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Rich.
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 13 Apr 2009
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Location: Newcastle


1998 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worse than a locker chris, you just pull a lever instead of flicking a switch.
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Diesel Destroyer
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Joined: 27 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not quite the same as a locker..

As with ARBs for example you can have 4wd open diffs..

Then 4wd rear diff locked... or both diffs locked..

But yes guess its another option

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Rich.
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Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Odometer: 1165
Location: Newcastle


1998 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just refering to the ease of locking/unlocking.

[Shameless plug]
I have a vitara arb rear locker advertised in the classifieds
[/Shameless plug]

Rich

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rocutts
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Dec 2009
Odometer: 176
Location: bournemouth bh23



PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dumb Question

Are Lockrights permantly locked or manually turned on and off.

?
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Rich.
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Odometer: 1165
Location: Newcastle


1998 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perminanly locked and unlock in the corners

Rich

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