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OK give in Tow rope/Strap
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Overlander
Just got MTs


Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Odometer: 303
Location: Glasgow



PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:23 pm    Post subject: OK give in Tow rope/Strap Reply with quote

This is getting ridiculous now, got trapped in a car park today because some asshole in a Suzuki SX4 got stuck. Got out to help them the front wheels were spinning like mad. This car park was only suitable for 4x4's as its got so bad no one uses it except me and two range rovers, due to the small volume of traffic its getting worse. So Mr suzuki says i dont get it, this is 4 wheel drive. Checked the dash to see if there was a centre difflock but nothing, front wheels spinning away no attempt on the rear wheels. Quick look underneath no rear diff, so 4 wheel drive my ass what a tool.

Sorry to ramble on but where can i buy a tow rope strap, that i can hook onto my tow bar. Would like to have one that will be of use to me in the future so one suitable for large 4x4's would be good.
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Orangev8
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you want to use it for ?

snatch recovery etc. ?
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DD
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Odometer: 9761
Location: Aberdeenshire


1986 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

for pulling idiots out of snow? A 4.99 yellow rope from Halfrauds will do......

Good for a few tonne..i.e, 4x4's for a gentle pull.

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90 v8 for fun
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DD
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Odometer: 9761
Location: Aberdeenshire


1986 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ps, they're not all 4 wheel drive. The SX4 'Sport' is FWD only.
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Disco 'DD' Don
90 v8 for fun
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'I came, I saw, I locked the diff'
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Overlander
Just got MTs


Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Odometer: 303
Location: Glasgow



PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just had a good look around an the kinetic ropes are pretty expensive thought they would only be a few quid dearer than a cheap rope. Only need one for pulling the idiots out of the snow but thought a good rope would only be a few quid more. Really do not want too spend too much but thats twice its taken me 3 hours to get home a normal journey is 15-20 mins. What really gets me is why do these morons think that their car can drive in a foot of snow, then you get the vacant stare as the wheels spin at 100 mph, now thats gonna help lol. Will buy a cheap rope then invest in a good ARB kinetic after the xmas shock is over
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clbarclay
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Odometer: 1779
Location: Worcesterhire


1987 Land Rover Range Rover

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As above, I have one of those ropes for jobs like that. One advantage of not using a proper size recovery rope is if they are badly stuck (eg. in ditch with an unknown tree stump wedged under a subframe) then hopefully the rope will snap before any serious damage is done.
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and the Lord help them caught helping there selves.
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TheClunk
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Odometer: 1159
Location: Chippenham


1997 Vauxhall Frontera

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a few 5 ton lifting slings to aid towing. My old mans company throws them away once used. He gets them for me to use for climbing.
They are handy with a couple of shackles to fit to cars with lost removable towing eyes. Had a few of them this week.
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idratherbesurfing
Just got MTs


Joined: 06 Nov 2008
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Location: In my garage with a cup of tea and the heating on


1985 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ive got a 4m 14t strap that I use for recovery. Get onto Bertie on here he sells good recovery kit Very Happy
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Ditched the jap crap and bought a 90 Wink ... and then dropped a V8 into it Very Happy
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Overlander
Just got MTs


Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Odometer: 303
Location: Glasgow



PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clbarclay wrote:
As above, I have one of those ropes for jobs like that. One advantage of not using a proper size recovery rope is if they are badly stuck (eg. in ditch with an unknown tree stump wedged under a subframe) then hopefully the rope will snap before any serious damage is done.


Never thought of that, mind made up then cheap rope for now proper one later and keep both.
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Orangev8
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having a rope as a weak link is madness. Even a cheap hawser laid rope will not give in until it is loaded to about 2t and then it will at least put a big dent in your bonnet, or some ones head.

For clarity

If you want a tow rope to tow something...........buy a tow rope.

If you want something to snatch a 2.5t 4x4 out of a ditch then get a proper 8t kinetic rope. When a 2.5t vehicle is attached to another 2.5t vehicle with a rope = 5t + dynamic load.

If you chuck me a piece of string if I am stuck...............I shall remain stuck!
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clbarclay
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Odometer: 1779
Location: Worcesterhire


1987 Land Rover Range Rover

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orangev8 wrote:
Having a rope as a weak link is madness. Even a cheap hawser laid rope will not give in until it is loaded to about 2t and then it will at least put a big dent in your bonnet, or some ones head.

For clarity

If you want a tow rope to tow something...........buy a tow rope.

If you want something to snatch a 2.5t 4x4 out of a ditch then get a proper 8t kinetic rope. When a 2.5t vehicle is attached to another 2.5t vehicle with a rope = 5t + dynamic load.

If you chuck me a piece of string if I am stuck...............I shall remain stuck!


Having snapped one of those cheap tow ropes for vehicles up to 2000kg (not actually towing or recovering at the time), they store a fraction of the energy of a typical kinetic rope. Combine that with the low weight of the rope, drag etc. and if someone happens to be in the way then a "big dent in some ones head" would be in the same league as cutting someone clean in half with a winch rope.

Potentially if the eye pulls out of their bumper then the weight of it and the hook (always goes at their end) might be about right for it to catapult, but then it would have broken at a lower force than the rope breaking and therefore less energy to accelerate the projectile and its still tethered to the back of my car.


The static draft force of 2 vehicles pulling against each other doesn't double the force in the rope, they just balance each other. The reality would be up to 2.5t static force and 5.5t dynamic load or to put that another way, subjecting your vehicle and body to 2.2g deceleration, which is not unreasonable. That however would be very different circumstances to me offering to pull a random persons car.


If you have an 8 or 12 ton recovery rope then can use it, but be aware than you can exert much higher forces on their car.

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and the Lord help them caught helping there selves.
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Nathaniel
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Joined: 13 May 2003
Odometer: 17901
Location: North, North Yorkshire


1979 Suzuki LJ

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have snapped a "£4.99 cheap yelow tow rope" a few times, and it just goes pop and falls to the floor, no damage...

They're ideal for clipping onto little towhooks too because of the diddy safety hook.

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Nat

If You Open Your Mind Too Much Your Brain Will Fall Out
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Nightbar
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Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Odometer: 20799
Location: In a state of anticipation...


1999 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wheel spinning - snow chains.
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nivapilot
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

idratherbesurfing wrote:
ive got a 4m 14t strap that I use for recovery. Get onto Bertie on here he sells good recovery kit Very Happy


I'll second that emotion..

Also I carry a hemp rope with spliced ends, a loop at both ends, seems to do the trick for me, shackle through whatever, on the stuck car, and loop over the towball, gets 'em moving every time.
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YotaDave
Articulating


Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Odometer: 958
Location: Bristol


1994 Toyota Landcruiser

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I carry a couple of JATO rockets. Strap them to the stuck vehicle and it disappears! Wink
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Orangev8
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clbarclay wrote:
Orangev8 wrote:
Having a rope as a weak link is madness. Even a cheap hawser laid rope will not give in until it is loaded to about 2t and then it will at least put a big dent in your bonnet, or some ones head.

For clarity

If you want a tow rope to tow something...........buy a tow rope.

If you want something to snatch a 2.5t 4x4 out of a ditch then get a proper 8t kinetic rope. When a 2.5t vehicle is attached to another 2.5t vehicle with a rope = 5t + dynamic load.

If you chuck me a piece of string if I am stuck...............I shall remain stuck!


Having snapped one of those cheap tow ropes for vehicles up to 2000kg (not actually towing or recovering at the time), they store a fraction of the energy of a typical kinetic rope. Combine that with the low weight of the rope, drag etc. and if someone happens to be in the way then a "big dent in some ones head" would be in the same league as cutting someone clean in half with a winch rope.

Potentially if the eye pulls out of their bumper then the weight of it and the hook (always goes at their end) might be about right for it to catapult, but then it would have broken at a lower force than the rope breaking and therefore less energy to accelerate the projectile and its still tethered to the back of my car.


The static draft force of 2 vehicles pulling against each other doesn't double the force in the rope, they just balance each other. The reality would be up to 2.5t static force and 5.5t dynamic load or to put that another way, subjecting your vehicle and body to 2.2g deceleration, which is not unreasonable. That however would be very different circumstances to me offering to pull a random persons car.


If you have an 8 or 12 ton recovery rope then can use it, but be aware than you can exert much higher forces on their car.


Hmmn! how did you snap the rope then ? and g force aside...are you conversant with load in tension. 2.5t + 2.5t = 5t tension in the rope= WLL + dynamic load.

Your not a lifting engineer by any chance?
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LlaniGraham
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Odometer: 2701
Location: Llanidloes



PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely you should never use a kinetic rope on a normal car.
Firstly the towing attachmants aren't designed for the forces involved, and secondly I doubt whether the towed will have any experience of the techniques involved.
Normal tow rope and "gently does it"

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4x4 Response Wales
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bigbadtonka
Just got MTs


Joined: 17 May 2004
Odometer: 492




PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my mum had an SX4 4Grip it was 4x4 and it was crap until they put M+S tyres on it then it was much better. his must have been FWD as it should go 4x4 if slipage is noticed or selected.

I now will only tow cars backwords out of trouble if they have a tow bar! i helped a friend tow an old manky Polo and my RRC pulled the front pannel off in one full piece, i would hate to do this to any other car!

I would though stick to a 2T rope as this should snap and fall down to the ground.
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crazymac
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Odometer: 2389
Location: Pembrokeshire, West Wales



PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunno about anyone else, but it terrifies me to think of people using Kinetic ropes or strops to drag people out of the snow??

Normal rated tow strops are easier to store in the car and with a shackle your end and a Karrabiner at the car end (most cars recovery hooks will not accept a shackle) then as Llanigraham says, gently away! there is no need for sudden shock loading.

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clbarclay
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Odometer: 1779
Location: Worcesterhire


1987 Land Rover Range Rover

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orangev8 wrote:
Hmmn! how did you snap the rope then ? and g force aside...are you conversant with load in tension. 2.5t + 2.5t = 5t tension in the rope= WLL + dynamic load.

Your not a lifting engineer by any chance?


It go snapped being used as a prusik loop to grip and pull out a length of box section from a box section bracket on a cultivator. Years of soil water and corrosion had "glued" them together so it was a case of applying some tension and then smacking the outer box section with a big hammer to separate them, only a bit too much tension was applied the first time.


No I'm not a lifting engineer.

I'm still not sure how you doubling the tension in the rope with 2 force acting in opposite directions or is this doubling it just a rule of thumb for working out a suitable size of rope?

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and the Lord help them caught helping there selves.
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sae70
Just got MTs


Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Odometer: 142
Location: Near Chelmsford, Essex.


1994 Suzuki Vitara

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Machine Mart Smile

50mmx4.5m 5000kg Lifting and Crane Webbing Tow Band £10.56

I've had one of these under my drivers seat for 3 years know & it's always in use as it's always handy Smile It has served me very well indeed not just towing but recovery as well even used it to pull a fence post back up straight Smile



Yes the shackle & a test certificate come with it as well all for only £10.56 Shocked

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Steven
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MudBarf
Just got MTs


Joined: 07 Jan 2010
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Location: London



PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clbarclay wrote:
I'm still not sure how you doubling the tension in the rope with 2 force acting in opposite directions or is this doubling it just a rule of thumb for working out a suitable size of rope?


I can't work that out either.

Unless you're hanging both cars from a crane with that one rope, I honestly can't see how someone can say a 2.5 ton car pulling a 2.5 ton car = 5 tons of pressure on that rope.

For a start, the rolling weight of an object is not equal to it's total weight. That's how come they can pull trains on the world's strongest man contest. On even ground, you have to overcome the friction of the object pressing down on it's own bearings, tyres etc - not lift it's entire weight. A 2000lb electric winch should, theoretically, be able to pull a 6000lb vehicle across even, smooth tarmac. If you had a maglev train, in theory a little girl could move it along a perfectly flat track - no friction to overcome. In reality, you'd have to do it in a vaccume too, and the little girl might not like that...

Anyhow, overcoming mud, snow, inclines etc adds another level of complexity here, but still doesn't mean 2.5T pulling 2.5T = 5T of pressure/torque on the rope. Even if you were pulling the vehicle straight up in the air with a 1:1 pully, you'd only be seeing 2.5T on the rope, plus whatever torque the acceleration forces of the towing vehicle moving generates. The towing vehicle doesn't add weight to the equation because it's already supporting itself. If it wasn't, then *it* would need towing/lifting too!

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jeepjeep
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Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting anton....

and as far as cutting someone in half clbarclay..... the mythbusters tried to cut a pig in half and failed,,, see here http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2006/10/episode_62_k..._cable_snaps.html

yes it can kill though
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Kitesurf
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Joined: 28 Feb 2005
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Location: Luton, Beds


1994 Toyota Surf

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I carry a hessian rope with a spliced loop on one end and a carbina on the other. I also have a short strap that I can attach through the spliced loop when required.

I also have one of those cheap orange stretchy things they sell in pound shops as towropes. It has only been used once - to pull out a Winnbago that had sunk up to its rims on soft grass.

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Roger
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Odometer: 2050
Location: Redditch Worcestershire



PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nivapilot wrote:
idratherbesurfing wrote:
ive got a 4m 14t strap that I use for recovery. Get onto Bertie on here he sells good recovery kit Very Happy


I'll second that emotion..



I asked Bertie for a quote for a 5 metre KER strap.

£22 plus postage he replied.

I ordered it.

I asked him how he wanted payment.

That was back in November.

Still waiting.

Roger
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james_hillerby
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Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Odometer: 3316
Location: Aberdeenshire


1989

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger You might have to pester Bertie as he works offshore and doesnt have the best of memories Twisted Evil
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smokeyjoe
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Joined: 23 Jul 2003
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Location: Kimpton



PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For road (including this snow stuff) use a 4m (approx) NYLON 12t tow ROPE.

These are not KER but do have a bit of stretch making towing a much more pleasurable & easier job.

Once you have the rope & a couple of 4.5t (ish) shackels the next thing to buy is a long strop. I have a 30m 2t from champion winches (about £20-30 from memory).
Why so long? cos it means I can pull something out of a snowdrift/mud hole etc without getting so close that I risk getting stuck as well - It has had a fair bit of use in the snow & wouldnt be without it.

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scut44
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anton,
if you are tow 2.5 tonnes, then thats what you are towing, & once its moving then thats easy.

If you dangle 2.5 tonnes, then thats the weight being held, 2.5 tonnes.

If 2.5 tonnes of vehicle is stuck in mud/ditch etc.
Then you are about to tow 2.5 tonnes.

BUT, its an immovable object possibly.You dont know how stuck till you try.
It might as well be an oil rig. & 1000,000 tonnes.

Untill it moves or something breaks you are pulling a dead weight,
the towing vehicle needs traction & putting its power to the ground.

If you ease off the tension and give it a bit of a tug.
Its still an imovable object till it moves,
so what are the forces involved.
2.5 tonnes doesnt come into it really.

If you go fishing for 20lb salmon with a 12lb breaking strain line,
You might land a 25lb salmon, or the line might break.
Tough luck.

Towing out 2.5 tonnes thats stuck with the wrong breaking strain of gear & it doesnt move it, then going wrong can end in big tears.
george


.
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ali_aberdeen
Just got MTs


Joined: 26 Apr 2006
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Location: Aberdeen



PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mythbusters may not cut a pig in half, but i can assure you there are no end of dead seafarers that have been cut in half or limbs cut off by parted ropes and wires. Seriously dangerous bits of equipment if not a Looked after and B used properly.
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leeds
Just got MTs


Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Odometer: 244
Location: Leeds



PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am surprised that no one has pointed out that people are using different terminology to describe their towing/recovery gear.


WLL = working load limit and is 1/7th of its rated strength of a new strap.

Polyester is material used in lifting strap and the standard one used in the 4 x 4 world is a 2" duplex double layer one which has an ultimate strength of 14 tonnes. Useful as a tow or tree strop due to its lower elasticity

Snatch/recovery straps are nylon due to its greater elasticity over polyester. For snatch straps the only safety factor I have seen is 2.5/3 to 1 by the Queensland state government so a 8,000 kg is suitable for most 4 x 4

Ropes are rated by their breaking strength and 8 tonne 24 mm nylon rope is the standard nylon recovery rope. Standard KERR is 12 tonnes.

Be wary about buying towing/recovery gear from non 4 x 4 places.

Halfords sell a tow rope suitable for towing a 4,000 kg vehicle. This figure of 4,000 has nothing to do with the strength of this rope. To tow a 4,000 kg vehicle on level tarmac which has no mechanical damage is only 400 kg. The hooks supplied on this rope are not stamped and are smaller then the 2,000 kg WLL hooks on my winch. What is the actual strength of this rope?? Have a look at the comments about all the tow ropes on the Halfords website.

Machine Mart are selling a towing bridle HERE No mention of strengths/wll. Are those shackles actually rated?

Be careful where you buy your gear from!

Brendan

There are tow straps rated at 5 tonnes on ebay yet have a quoted strength of 6 tonnes a safety factor of 1.2

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