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samwise Off-Road Guru
Joined: 18 Feb 2005 Odometer: 1359 Location: hull east yorkshire/bournemouth dorset
1993 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject: offroad driver training
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hello
The department i am studying in sends us out in a hilux frequently to collect fisheries data for various clients which allows us access to large numbers of riverbanks (if not all under the right circumstances).
the problem is they have never put anyone through any kind of offroad training or winching, the hilux has a sizeable winch, which i have been told has been used. The other week the driver got stuck and all hell broke loose until i calmly got into the drivers seat and after a few self recovery techniques i have picked up, managed to get us free, i'm no expert though and the driver panicking made an easy recovery a difficult recovery that i was not confident about either.
Now everyone is pressing the head of the department to get everyone on a 4x4 driver training to save further embarassment.
I'm not familiar with many of these other than the LR experience which isn't quite what i'm looking for. we are in Hull so somewhere in yorkshire would be good but we travel all over so will take into consideration those further away.
i was also thinking maybe contacting the hull4x4 club see if they can possibly show everyone the ropes.
anybody have any ideas?
p.s a winch course would also be great.
__________________________________ PLEASE VISIT:- www.nocar-noproblem.blogspot.com
Two thousand years ago, a Roman Senator suggested that
all slaves wear white armbands to better identify them.
"No," said a wiser Senator,
"If they see how many of them there are, they may revolt." |
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scut44 Guest
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject:
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www.protrax.co.uk
Stoke Albany
Leics
LE16 8NX
Unless they come to train you.
The head of department should know that legally you have to be trained by a qualified person.
Before using winches & probably before driving off-road.
He would be liable for charges of corprate manslaughter if the worst happened.
He should have had risk assesments carried out already.
& training will be tax deductable.
george
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LlaniGraham Mud Obsessed
Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Odometer: 2701 Location: Llanidloes
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:50 pm Post subject:
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Trying googling "Lantra" or "BOFA" as I think that both of these bodies provide training in both your required fields.
__________________________________ MSA Radio WORCESTER 1
4x4 Response Wales |
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Let Luce Mud Obsessed
Joined: 11 Dec 2002 Odometer: 4018 Location: Derbyshire
1977 Land Rover 101
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:00 pm Post subject:
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Mention PUWER regs to him, which say you must have adequate training to use the equipment for your work.
__________________________________ Landrovers; a full time occupation
www.themorgans.info/expedition/index.php |
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aopoleyin Articulating
Joined: 27 Jun 2007 Odometer: 712 Location: Correze, France
1989 Jeep Cherokee
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject:
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University departments...
I drove past our stuck Ford Ranger, then, after many beers were promised, went back and pulled it out.
I was driving a Skoda Favorit.
(ok, with A/Ts on, but even so )
Former Marine Biology/Renewable Technologies student.
Problem, at least in our Uni, was that the driving was generally handed-off to the postgrad students and the department wasn't willing to spend a penny on training.
__________________________________ 1989 Renault XJ Cherokee TD |
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mudplugga Mud Obsessed
Joined: 23 Oct 2004 Odometer: 2798 Location: Shropshire mostly, and Mid Wales
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:53 pm Post subject:
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Try Tim Kirk in Holmfirth, Yorkshire. I went there through my employer a while back with another guy and had a superb few days there.
http://leeds.floodlight.co.uk/leeds/courses-cla...49417/domain.html
We were both trials drivers so thought we knew it all, we were wrong!
We both learned so much.
The land he uses is where they shoot the outdoor scenes for Last Of The Summer Wine, so you might get lucky, as we did, and get to meet the cast.
It's also superb off roading and Tim tailors the course to suit the drivers experience. On the last afternoon my employer would have been having a fit if they had seen where we taking a 110 Defender.
Holmfirth is nice as well, there's some first class pubs there.
__________________________________ http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337
"Roof, doors, wheels. It's the way I drive." |
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samwise Off-Road Guru
Joined: 18 Feb 2005 Odometer: 1359 Location: hull east yorkshire/bournemouth dorset
1993 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:37 pm Post subject:
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guys thanks so much. very helpful
yes i to am aware that the department is skirting on legalities by not providing the training.
aopoleyin: i just completed my BSC in marine and freshwater biology. taken it a step further to a research masters in fisheries management.
seriously, thanks everyone, always good to have recommended services.
will put them forward to the man in the office. will let you know how we get on. im sure their will be pictures to go with
__________________________________ PLEASE VISIT:- www.nocar-noproblem.blogspot.com
Two thousand years ago, a Roman Senator suggested that
all slaves wear white armbands to better identify them.
"No," said a wiser Senator,
"If they see how many of them there are, they may revolt." |
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cynic-al Mud Obsessed
Joined: 14 Nov 2006 Odometer: 6062 Location: scunthorpe
1989 Suzuki SJ
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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:55 pm Post subject:
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If you read the H&S guidelines the vehicle should also have a roll cage. You will see Tarmac fit roll cages to all their Hiluxs.
I wouldn't get someone from a club to show you, not because they can't, i'm sure they would be very good, but because as far as H&S & liability is concerned training has to be done by a competent person, its hard to prove that they are competent as anyone can join the club.
__________________________________ I know enough to be dangerous. |
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. Difflock Royalty
Joined: 19 Jun 2002 Odometer: 40007 Location: Northern Ireland's Gold Coast
2009 Land Rover 110 CSW
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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject:
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It has to be certified training to comply with the regs.
I was going to recommend LANTRA but I was beaten to it. You mentioned Land Rover Experience, I know that before they lost thier franchise that our local LRE did certified off-road driving and whinch training as well as the corporate jollys so may be worth asking.
__________________________________ Bert the Defender 110 XS - because it's Cool (work it out yourself!)
Lolita the Lightweight
???? the V8 90 CSW
Suzuki DL1000 V-Strom - yes that's right, I have a Zook! |
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samwise Off-Road Guru
Joined: 18 Feb 2005 Odometer: 1359 Location: hull east yorkshire/bournemouth dorset
1993 Suzuki Samurai
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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject:
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oh joy he's going to love me when i take all this to him. will have to write it all down otherwise i'm going to forget it all.
so it needs a certified trainer and i'm guessing will result in some kind of certificate which can be shown incase of an accident to show you are trained. one for driving and one for winching?
the hilux needs a rollcage in order to comply with regulations (anyone got a link to this part as i can't seem to find it). And anyone who drives offroad has to be trained...does this include byways/greenlanes or just the off-piste parts we get access to?
will give LRE a call and see what they say also.
thanks again.
__________________________________ PLEASE VISIT:- www.nocar-noproblem.blogspot.com
Two thousand years ago, a Roman Senator suggested that
all slaves wear white armbands to better identify them.
"No," said a wiser Senator,
"If they see how many of them there are, they may revolt." |
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XrHiNo Guest
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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject:
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4xfun Colin is a Lantra instructor but I'm not sure if he's still operating
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mudplugga Mud Obsessed
Joined: 23 Oct 2004 Odometer: 2798 Location: Shropshire mostly, and Mid Wales
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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject:
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I'm not sure that roll cages have to be fitted to an 'employees vehicle' for use off road.
The utility company I work for has no cages fitted to any of it's Landrovers, Rangers or MAN 4X4 trucks. And neither do any of the other utility company vehicles I see and work alongside.
The fitting of a roll cage would probably be seen as an admission that the employer either expected, or allowed, the vehicle to be used in a situation where it might roll.
The company I work for won't fit aggressive tyres, we have all terrains and not mud terrains.
My understanding is that the vehicles are deemed safe to use as supplied, if they are driven within the constraints of the vehicle and the training of the driver.
The onus is on the TRAINED DRIVER to not exceed the recommended ability of the vehicle.
My training certificate expired a while back, and I now drive a Transit instead of a 110, so I am not allowed to drive any company 4x4 under any circumstances, I can't even move one on a car park anymore.
Bigger ( possibly more responsible, or, more afraid of being sued? ) companies are tying up the employees in health and safety rules to a degree that old farts like me have never experienced.
The fact is, there is no argument against the ever stricter safety rules and recommendations, another fact is that we ( the workers ) have to abide by them because the way modern health and safety rules are worded and enforced puts ALL the responsibility firmly with the worker.
And ignorance is no defence.
If you drive off road for your employer, you have to be trained. And then you have to abide by that training and resist the temptation to wreck a new 110 Defender by sinking it up to the windscreen in a river.
__________________________________ http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337
"Roof, doors, wheels. It's the way I drive." |
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cynic-al Mud Obsessed
Joined: 14 Nov 2006 Odometer: 6062 Location: scunthorpe
1989 Suzuki SJ
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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:27 pm Post subject:
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Sorry, reading that back what i say sounds a little OTT. you don't have to have a roll cage by law, just like you don't have to have a fork lift license to operate a fork lift, the HSE guidelines purely state that the operator must be trained by a competant person, companies opt for getting people a 'forklift license' as it is an easy if expensive way to comply with the requirement. There is infact no such thing as a 'forklift license' as such, just a certificate of compenance from someone like RTITB which is nationally recognised.
Anyway, back on topic
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg199.pdf
Go to page 11. It basically says that a safe vehicle must be provided, if your employer, ie the university, has done a risk assessment and decided that the standard vehicle roll protection is adequate based on risk and consequence then thats fine, companies such as tarmac provide extra as they are obviosuly concerned about the vehicles rolling or large things falling on it.
Your university (or you if its part of your course) should have done a risk assessment, they may say wear a seatbelt to protect you in a roll, they may say don't wear one so you can get out if you drive into the river.
Either way they should train you in their decision.
Personally I hate all this and like to just get on with a job but its not so easy when it involves others as there are some pretty dumb people out there
__________________________________ I know enough to be dangerous. |
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mudplugga Mud Obsessed
Joined: 23 Oct 2004 Odometer: 2798 Location: Shropshire mostly, and Mid Wales
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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:33 am Post subject:
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Quote: | Personally I hate all this and like to just get on with a job but its not so easy when it involves others as there are some pretty dumb people out there |
Ain't that the truth!
It's one of the reasons I'm quitting my job, ( voluntary redundancy ) I finish next week after 31 years.
I know that I can't avoid or ignore the regulations, so I've made a decision to bail out.
It's the dumb people that drive all this legislation, and the clever lawyers that act on their behalf.
__________________________________ http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337
"Roof, doors, wheels. It's the way I drive." |
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