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mogmaner Winch Assistant
Joined: 26 Feb 2009 Odometer: 91 Location: NOTTINGHAM
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:23 pm Post subject: road youse
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404 as tractors come under vintage insurance . mines insured with cherished car if i remember right they will insure yonger drivers .
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dxmedia Mud Obsessed
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject:
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If you want to go down the tractor route, suddenly there's the 22 tonne trailer limit which comes into play
I've no idea how the post 97 licence effects this though. A mog's official tow limit of something like 2 1/2 tonne is for offroad. I've yet to find the on road towing limit. I've seen vid of a stock 404 taking part in a tractor pull and wiping the floor with some heavily modified tractors.
Just a thought. I know I keep harping on about the tractor thing, but it opens sooo many doors, and the mog was designed as a tractor so the paper work is supposed to be a breeze.
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mogmaner Winch Assistant
Joined: 26 Feb 2009 Odometer: 91 Location: NOTTINGHAM
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:37 pm Post subject: road youse
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my little 401 i had befor the 404 had a rating of 40 tonne in 1st gear droping as you went up the box that was with a 1,7L engine .you could also insure a 404 as a clasic truck or milatry .
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paul_c Off-Road Guru
Joined: 17 May 2009 Odometer: 1378
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:57 pm Post subject:
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dxmedia wrote: | If you want to go down the tractor route, suddenly there's the 22 tonne trailer limit which comes into play
I've no idea how the post 97 licence effects this though. A mog's official tow limit of something like 2 1/2 tonne is for offroad. I've yet to find the on road towing limit. I've seen vid of a stock 404 taking part in a tractor pull and wiping the floor with some heavily modified tractors.
Just a thought. I know I keep harping on about the tractor thing, but it opens sooo many doors, and the mog was designed as a tractor so the paper work is supposed to be a breeze. |
If you go down the tractor route:
- Forget about cat B C, C1, C+E, etc driving licences - you need category F (tractor). If you take a car driving test, I think you get this as an entitlement though.
- Weight limit is 24390kg gross train weight, with the restriction that the trailer:tractor weight ratio doesn't exceed 4:1. So for the Unimog as described above, its about 13 tons. But you'd also need to stick within the manufacturer's weight limit
- At this weight, you'll be restricted to 40km/h (approx 25mph). If you want to go faster, it needs to be operated as a goods vehicle, so you need a proper truck licence (C+E, C1+E, B+E, B, C1 depending on the weights).
- Above a certain speed (I think its 30km/h, might now be 40km/h), the trailer needs dual brakes and ABS. Above another speed (I think its 40km/h) I think you need suspension on the trailer too.
- IT NEED TO BE PRIMARILY USED FOR FARMING
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dxmedia Mud Obsessed
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:10 pm Post subject:
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paul_c wrote: |
- IT NEED TO BE PRIMARILY USED FOR FARMING |
Do you have any citation to this Paul?
Not wishing to sound rude, but you've already stated that you can't drive a tractor more than 10 miles from base which appears to be incorrect.
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paul_c Off-Road Guru
Joined: 17 May 2009 Odometer: 1378
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:14 pm Post subject:
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dxmedia wrote: | paul_c wrote: |
- IT NEED TO BE PRIMARILY USED FOR FARMING |
Do you have any citation to this Paul?
Not wishing to sound rude, but you've already stated that you can't drive a tractor more than 10 miles from base which appears to be incorrect. |
I never said that! All I said was the rules were not a grey area. The previous links given explain everything.
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mogmaner Winch Assistant
Joined: 26 Feb 2009 Odometer: 91 Location: NOTTINGHAM
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject: road youse
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under historic most of the agric youse is not yoused as you tend to take it to and from shows wether static or playing it dose not have to be for agric youse.
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dxmedia Mud Obsessed
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:22 pm Post subject:
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paul_c wrote: | Donk of Yorkshireshire wrote: | The DVLA exemptions for an agricultural vehicle do state that you cant drive the vehicle further than 10 miles from the owners land, and is supposed to be for travel between the owners land.
My mog was registered as a lifeboat launcher and the only restriction was that it was to be used for that purpose, So I carried a inflatable dinghy lol.
It is a bit of a grey area. |
Its not grey, its clearly defined what "Agricultural Use" is and driving to pay & play sites will NOT be in it! The powers-that-be don't like people who try to find loopholes, they tend to think something fishy is going on. I did look at whether you could reregister as a tractor but there's so many limitations it would really cripple your use. Unless of course, you needed it for farming... |
Sorry, I read that it wasn't a grey area and you can't drive a tractor more than 10 miles....
wrong end of what you were saying then.
The links you posted are also for non suspension single axle braked tractors, not for high speed tractors like the fast track (you can wind them up past 70 if you've the balls) and the unimog.
If it's not a grey area there needs to be a definitive answer to the restrictions on driving a unimog which has been registered as a tractor and it's ability to tow.
I know that there are MANY arborists who use unimogs and tow various implements and trailers for many miles who have tractor registered mogs.
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mogmaner Winch Assistant
Joined: 26 Feb 2009 Odometer: 91 Location: NOTTINGHAM
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:24 pm Post subject: road youse
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40k aplies to two wheel brakes and no springs
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Tom.H Guest
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:47 pm Post subject:
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Hi
I still think the honest way would be to 'de rate' the mog and then take a trailer test. Meaning I'd end up with a B+E license
This would allow me to drive the mog up to a gvw of 3.5 tons and also tow a trailer weighing up 3.5 tons
Although I'd still be up for registering it as an agricultural vehicle .... As I wouldn't have to 'de rate' the gross vehicle weight as well as not taking a trailer test.
I suspect there's away of registering it so that it meets my needs... It will just rely on me saying the correct thing to the DVLA/Office
Tom
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dxmedia Mud Obsessed
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject:
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If the tractor route is chosen and proved to be legal it isn't dishonest.
The mog was originally designed as a universal tractor. If you are licenced to drive a tractor and you happen to own one, all well and good.
I own my mog since it's a tractor. The MOT exemptness (new word?) I would suggest is a reason to make sure that the MOG is mechanically as near perfect as you can get it, it's not justification to run a dangerous vehicle (IMO the opposite since if you do get into any problems then the condition of the mog will be checked and double checked). The free tax and the classic tractor insurance all help in keeping a historic vehicle on the road.
Total cost of ownership for a mog for a year as registered as a tractor is £90 for the insurance. The savings else where all go towards keeping a 45 year old truck (um tractor ) in road worthy condition which is not only safe, but safe enough to pass a thorough inspection if anything bad was to happen.
Non of that is dishonest.
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mogmaner Winch Assistant
Joined: 26 Feb 2009 Odometer: 91 Location: NOTTINGHAM
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject: road youse
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depending on year of build it will alter the licence requied to drive it as a clssic truck. minse 1958 so is exempt test as a truck and can be driven on a basic car licence as can large ridged milatry trucks. so there is a mine field to be picked through but you should get the result you are after.
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Turnip Just got MTs
Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Odometer: 192 Location: Gloucestershire
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Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:04 pm Post subject:
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Guys, I have read this thread with great interest and my understanding is that........ There is no limit as to how far from home you can go with a tractor, I think this stems from the old system of a tax exemption for farm tractors which did have a limit of I think 7 road miles in a week. There may also be a sting in as much as Im pretty sure that you cannot actually carry a load on a tractor - apart from in a link box? There used to be a company which took the back off a landrover and fitted it back as a removable box. This could then be taxed as a tractor but was definately restricted to 30mph, I drove one! Having said that I have seen a JCB Fastrack on the motorway - he was popular!. I insure my Mog with the NFU as a vintage commercial vehicle at about £60 PA - wouldnt want to have an accident with it loaded though!
Fired up the Mog with the Iveco 8140 TDI for the first time today, tight squeeze to get it in there, but if it goes well it could be the way forward for those wanting to go Diesel!
__________________________________ Never mistake the edge of your rut for the horizon......... |
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mogmaner Winch Assistant
Joined: 26 Feb 2009 Odometer: 91 Location: NOTTINGHAM
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Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:22 pm Post subject: ROAD YOUSE
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Glade to hear youre up and running should be a good option just needs refining now youve proved it will fit. Im looking at my prima and a vm i have sat around both have turbo and inlet on the same side as the M180 . As for trailer test its a good idear to take it as its only going to get harder .
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TigerMog Winch Assistant
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Odometer: 88 Location: Marchwood
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:51 am Post subject:
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I find this thread interesting because I wasnt aware of this forum when I arrived to the UK last year and tried to register my mog. With no forum guidance to help out I will tell you it is a huge struggle to register an old 404 here. I bounced around between DVLA, VOSA, and every other four letter acronym office you have here for three months until I was told that I simply couldn't register my truck in the UK. As a 1962, my 404 was too old for an approved type test, etc etc.
I was asked what I had the vehicle registered as before coming to the UK and told the man "...a vehicle. It was just registered as a vehicle. We dont have all these TYPES of vehicles". After all of the pain of fighting through DVLA and being told that they simply would not register it, I went to the Mercedes website, looked at the history of the Unimog, printed off the page and highlighted the sentence that said "originally designed as an agricultural vehicle".
One more trip to DVLA, I showed the page with the highlighted sentence, the lady smiles and says "oh, so it is an old tractor then? great!" No MOT, no tax, have a nice day and see you again next year.
__________________________________ cheers,
Dan
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming "@#$%, what a ride!" |
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boatman Gate Opener
Joined: 16 Jul 2009 Odometer: 1 Location: Bristol
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject:
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Hello Tom
I know its a bit late but I have had to derate my 404 as my licence was restricted for medical reasons.Itis quite straight forward.You need to cotact an outfit called SvTech (specialist vehicle technology)5B Talbot Road,Leyland,Lancs PR25 2ZF.
This was several years ago.
Hope this may help you or anybody else.By the way you do not have to do anything to the vehicle,its just a paper exercise with a fee of course.
Regards
H
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steeee Gate Opener
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 Odometer: 23 Location: bedFORD
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:36 pm Post subject:
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Tom I would highly advise you to get insurance quotes now before you get a nasty surprise on your 17 birthday.
I think youl find that without it costing a fortune you will realistically only be able to insure it under a tractor or classic tractor policy, bear in mind that NFU no longer insure under 25's
sorry to bring a downer
__________________________________ I hate my disco! but sometimes she makes me smile! |
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paul_c Off-Road Guru
Joined: 17 May 2009 Odometer: 1378
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bluesj Off-Road Guru
Joined: 06 Feb 2006 Odometer: 1045 Location: East Sussex
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject:
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steeee wrote: | Tom I would highly advise you to get insurance quotes now before you get a nasty surprise on your 17 birthday.
I think youl find that without it costing a fortune you will realistically only be able to insure it under a tractor or classic tractor policy, bear in mind that NFU no longer insure under 25's
sorry to bring a downer |
NFU do insure under 25!
__________________________________ The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese |
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dxmedia Mud Obsessed
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Odometer: 2185
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:12 am Post subject:
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An operators license is for using a vehicle commercially.
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