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What suspension for an overlander?

 
 
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Jimmy
Just got MTs


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Odometer: 307
Location: Wirral, Cheshire


1992 Toyota Landcruiser

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 7:05 pm    Post subject: What suspension for an overlander? Reply with quote

Hi all, I'm setting up my LJ78 Landcruiser for a trip through Africa and I'm wondering what shocks/springs I need to fit. Obviously whatever I fit has to contend with the dreaded corrugated roads and I would like to be able to drive them at respectable speeds without shaking the door hinges apart. Also it will have to last. I read that the OME gear is well suited to that sort of terrain and have polybushes as standard but I've also heard that their shocks don't last. Is this true or was it just someone trying to sell me procomps? Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance.

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VentureOverland
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Joined: 02 Jul 2006
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Location: Yorkshire, UK



PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are very few good, long lasting systems out there for overlanding and even fewer people who have actually used a lot of them where it matters!

We use King Spring springs and Tough Dog dampers on all our solutions, not the cheapest, but certainly up there with the best.

I would say some of the info you have been given may well be correct, definately would not go with pro-comps for overlanding. Wouldnt use polybushes either, genuine replacement rubber.

If you'd like to chat anything over, feel free to get in touch.

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VentureOverland
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YotaDave
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Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: Bristol


1994 Toyota Landcruiser

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have a word with Sarah, if anyone has experience overlanding in a Yota its her. Very Happy
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Jimmy
Just got MTs


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Odometer: 307
Location: Wirral, Cheshire


1992 Toyota Landcruiser

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jon, so does your setup give a smooth ride on the corrugated roads? Have you personally tried OME setups? This is one of the most important choices for me to make as if I end up with a harsh ride it can mean the difference between completing 100 or 400 miles in a day. I don't mind paying a bit more for decent stuff.

The Aussies rave over polybushes, why do you think rubber ones are better?

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VentureOverland
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Ive used OME. As you rightly say, corrugations are the enemy and the ability to cruise over them as comfortably as possible is key.

I dont knock polybushes, they have their place. Personally however I dont use them on overland vehicles, especially if they are destined for Africa. I know Australia is a big place but all the towns are relitevely well developed and so parts are never un-available, though experience has taught that you sometimes need to wait for them to be delivered!

I use genuine rubber beause normally speaking, if you need to find a bush when your in the middle of no-where, chances are that a man in the closest "town" will have some rubber bushes to get you going. Almost guarentee he wont have a replacement polybush and travelling with odd suspension components should only be done as an absolute last resort to get you out of trouble and only then as a temporry measure.

Also. If you stiffen up all the bushes to solid polyeurethene, how do you expect to minimise corrugation induced vibration? Tyres and dampers alone dont do it, the bushes have a considerable effect as well.

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SimonWH
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon is correct, if you are prepping a proper overland truck do not consider trying to save money on the suspension. Cheap products will see you shaking your truck to pieces within a very short time.

We only retail the Pro-Comps because people like them for offroad trucks, I'd never fit them to my Defender. The King Springs Jon recommends are very good, if you go to France you will find them on pretty well EVERY 4x4. I use TJM (australian) on mine which I'm happy with and they offer a very good range for Jap trucks.

The only area I stray from received wisdom is bushes. A lot of overlanders will recommend sticking to original, and there is nothing wrong with that, but the Super Pro bushes I use (NOT polybush) offer different types so you can vary the harshness/softness. Plus they are a damned sight easier to change should the need arise.

Just personal opinion
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DavidLovejoy
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Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will second Simon on the SuperPro - like OEM but better.

I am using Terafirma shocks on the 110. They are Dobinsons but sold under the Terrafirma name. I am convinced that the UK marketing guys got it wrong, better quality and tougher than OME but for some reason they are priced to undercut Pro-comp! Very impressed.

As for springs, It has to be King or Eibach
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bens_jeep
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd personally feel that for long distance travel in Africa in a Toyota, you can't do better than stick to original equipment; when it breaks, and it inevitably will, you can replace it relatively easily.

plus, LandCruisers are developed to sell in that market and suit it pretty well. You will never get a 'comfortable' ride, all you will achieve is maximise your bearable daily mileage and get as long as possible between replacement.

I would suggest that whatever shocks and bushes you take, you take some spares - but beware of trying to get things which look as though they might be expensive and necessary through African border controls! You don't say what part of Africa you are going to?
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Jimmy
Just got MTs


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Odometer: 307
Location: Wirral, Cheshire


1992 Toyota Landcruiser

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for your input. Ben, I intend to do a couple of months around the northern countries within the next couple of years. Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya and Egypt are hopefully to be included in the cards. I'd also love one day to drive Cairo - Cape Town, but then I'd also love to drive the rest of the world. What do you mean when you say "but beware of trying to get things which look as though they might be expensive and necessary through African border controls"? It might sound naive of me to ask but do you think that would make them more likely to demand money/turn nasty?

I have been considering a minor suspension lift to help with clearance issues so I can fit larger tyres for greenlaning and off roading, hence why the topic. If aftermarket suspension parts are going to do more harm than good when overlanding though I may just make do with smaller tyres..

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durknp
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Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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Location: Cambridge


1990 Land Rover Range Rover

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That overland trip sounds like it would be amazing. Being from South Africa myself i have had plenty of trouble from the boarder guards into neighbouring countries. especially zimbabwe and mozambique. The previous post is right, keep all things that glitter out of sight. Otherwise they may start asking for bribes or i have even had new engine parts conviscated until i return with some "persuasion gift". The other thing that may happen is they may choose to tax you on items saying that it is been imported and so duty must be paid, knowing full well as he turns the corner that wad of cash will go straight in his pocket. But on the other hand you may go the whole trip without a single problem like this and i really hope you do. As i say just keep things out of sight and out of mind, inc big shiny watches etc. A mate of mine used to tie things up in the suspension or in a nook in the engine while passing through customs.
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jax906
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Joined: 31 May 2009
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Location: cheshire



PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

suspension wise your probably best off uprating it to carry the extra kit/spares that you will be carrying, standard stuff will be fine for the vehical with low weight in but add all the kit you will need/want with you, your back end will be down somewhat

as mentioned able the springs and dampers are top quality and as with most of the things spend once and get the best stuff the first time i run pro comps only as its mainly an off road truck an they are perfect for the job for any overlanding i'd be paying top dollar an getting top quality stuff.

bush wise i'd stick with standard only because it offers more flex and shock absourbance (may not be a word Smile ) etc than a poly bush, which would help to shake your car to bits Smile

dave
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YotaDave
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Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Odometer: 958
Location: Bristol


1994 Toyota Landcruiser

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon@Difflock wrote:


The only area I stray from received wisdom is bushes. A lot of overlanders will recommend sticking to original, and there is nothing wrong with that, but the Super Pro bushes I use (NOT polybush) offer different types so you can vary the harshness/softness. Plus they are a damned sight easier to change should the need arise.

Just personal opinion


Regarding polyurethane bushes:

Superpro bushes are still polybushes (if you are using that word as a term meaning bushes made from polyurethane).

Polybushes should be far superior to the rubber originals due to the robustness of the polyurethane material. It is far more resistant to denigration through repetitive stress than rubber, will not easily tear and is also solvent resistant. The main problem with most polybushes is that they are made to too high a shore hardness.

Shore harness is the scale of flexibility in a material. If you could find a polybush with the same or slightly lower shore hardness than the original rubber bush then you would have a far superior component that will work better than the original and give the same if not better flex and last a lot longer.

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bens_jeep
Just got MTs


Joined: 10 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

someone else had experience of sub-Sahara African border controls by the sounds of it!

If you are going along the N African coast, you have a lot less problems, which isn't to say that you don't have any.... Morocco and Tunisia have well developed tourist industries, including a lot of organised off-road driving and you shouldn't have any real problems there. For an introduction to this kind of thing, you should be able to book into an escorted self-drive party or a hire vehicle in Tunisia in particular. Namibia is also good for that sort of trip, I've done both and enjoyed it very much.

Algeria and Libya are not really tourist destinations though. Algerians in particular drive like lunatics, even by North African standards, which is saying quite a bit.

you don't need to carry huge piles of stuff in N Africa, buy it as you go, food is very cheap and distances aren't vast. When you get down into the Sahara, Mauretania and so forth, or East of Tunisia into Libya, that's a different matter altogether.

the main problems in Arab countries tend to revolve around visas and entry requirements. They tend to be beaurocratic and obstructive, and you need to make your preparations well in advance.

Egypt, personally I would avoid it. Last couple of times I have been there, security for Westerners wandering around has been an issue.
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Let Luce
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Joined: 11 Dec 2002
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1977 Land Rover 101

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bens_jeep wrote:
Egypt, personally I would avoid it. Last couple of times I have been there, security for Westerners wandering around has been an issue.


I'd second that, it's really not worht the hastle and the extra expense on the carnet (much bigger depost required than for most other countries). Morrocco lots of the pistes have been or are being tarred so that's not an issue with your suspension, I've not done the other countries on your list as we headed down the east coast via The Sudan and Ethiopia, now there were some bad roads, but you adjust your speed to compensate.

I don't know if anyone else has heard of them but Robs Magic shocks are made by Rob Collinge (a former East Africa Rally champion) in Kenya, for kenyan roads, and anyone who's driven in Kenya will tell you what that means. http://www.robsmagic.com/ . Practically all local 4x4's we saw out there were running them, and they weren't the only brand you could get.

In the end it's all about mechanical sympathy, we travelled for a while with a German couple in a 75 cruiser, by the time we got to Aswan, it wasn't the shock that was knackered but the mounting had sheared off the chassis.

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Jimmy
Just got MTs


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Odometer: 307
Location: Wirral, Cheshire


1992 Toyota Landcruiser

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotta say guys, the plethora of info coming on this thread is ace, thanks muchly for it. And the advice is golden. Much for me to think about here.

Thanks again.

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bens_jeep
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

standard suspension ought to cope with anything along the N African coast.

personally, I wouldn't go anywhere near Sudan or Ethiopia, but that's a matter of choice and opinions vary on this.

If you haven't yet seen Long Way Down, get it and watch it. Lots of footage of E African road conditions and an interesting alternative to the usual travel programme 'here I am where the foot of man has never trod .. apart from the camera crew, support truck, two poofs from make-up and the continuity girl who is having an affair with the director' sort of thing
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Let Luce
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 11 Dec 2002
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Location: Derbyshire


1977 Land Rover 101

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you seen Darrin's (Roaming Yak, though not on this forum) video, of a number of pistes round Morocco, well worth a look before you go.
http://www.roamingyak.org/
another site to look at is www.horizonsunlimited.com

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www.themorgans.info/expedition/index.php


Last edited by Let Luce on Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bens_jeep
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

one thing you DO need to beware of in N Africa is being near, and most of all taking photos of, 'restricted' sites - mostly military or prisons, but also airports - remember those eejits in Greece a year or two ago?.

these are fairly self-evident in Morocco or Tunisia, but Algeria and ( especially ) Libya, less so.. don't let the police or militia see you taking pics, and you will probably be ok.
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Let Luce
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 11 Dec 2002
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1977 Land Rover 101

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bens_jeep wrote:
one thing you DO need to beware of in N Africa is being near, and most of all taking photos of, 'restricted' sites - mostly military or prisons, but also airports - remember those eejits in Greece a year or two ago?.

these are fairly self-evident in Morocco or Tunisia, but Algeria and ( especially ) Libya, less so.. don't let the police or militia see you taking pics, and you will probably be ok.


We had a similar experience in Syria, got escorted away from where we'd pulled over to have some lunch, on a road seemingly in the middle of nowhere.
A military truck turned up and told us we couldn't stop there, and took us a few k's down the road to a service station where he bought us drinks and cake by way of an apology and welcomed us to Syria courtesy of the Syrian Army.
It was only as we were following him down the road we noticed the big camoflaged guns pointing out from the hillside. Embarassed

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