View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
nivaman Articulating
Joined: 24 May 2006 Odometer: 929 Location: New Zealand
|
Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 12:44 pm Post subject: Running jet fuel in a Diesel.
|
|
|
Who has tried jet fuel in their Diesel truck?, what did it run like?, any thoughts please.
__________________________________ Lada a little car that takes you far. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
terence Guest
|
Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Avgas is just refined kerosene. mix it 50 the cooking oil and itl be great.. off road of course, or else pay road fuel duty on it.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
terence Guest
|
Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 1:14 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
military landies are frequently used on it and in fact the early multifuels were designed to.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
treeboa Articulating
Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Odometer: 527 Location: horden
|
Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 1:19 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
dont forget to take out the remove before flight pin/tags
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
nivaman Articulating
Joined: 24 May 2006 Odometer: 929 Location: New Zealand
|
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 12:24 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Understood Kerosene could also be used in a diesel but it burns dry so needs a dash of two stroke oil mixed with it?.
With running jet fuel in WVO filtered WVO of course, would it render the viscosity suitable to be run through the injector pump as is?.
I think here in New Zealand the jet fuel is called jetA1.
__________________________________ Lada a little car that takes you far. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
terence Guest
|
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:10 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Niva man spot on, the lack of lubrication in the Avgas is adjusted by the lube in the veg oil and the vicosity of the veg oil is adjusted by the solvent properties of the avgas..
win win scenario and it wont go lumpy in the winter ...
but illegal for road use without first declaring the fuel duty.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
The Smiths Articulating
Joined: 21 Nov 2007 Odometer: 711 Location: Doncaster
|
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 12:56 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
terence mckibben wrote: |
but illegal for road use without first declaring the fuel duty. |
No it is in the UK - not sure about New Zealand though
__________________________________ If you always do what you have always done,
you always get what you've always got. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
nivaman Articulating
Joined: 24 May 2006 Odometer: 929 Location: New Zealand
|
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
terence mckibben wrote: |
but illegal for road use without first declaring the fuel duty. |
HeHe not here .
Once i get my diesel fitted i might have a go at some WVO/jet fuel mix.
Now here is a silly idea....... how to run that mix in a petrol engine, one way to find out i guess....better go find me a lawn mower engine.
__________________________________ Lada a little car that takes you far. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
terence Guest
|
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
your right it is a silly idea.
spark ignition wont work.
its a fuel air explosive for compression ignition only !
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nathaniel Difflock Royalty
Joined: 13 May 2003 Odometer: 17901 Location: North, North Yorkshire
1979 Suzuki LJ
|
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 6:44 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
I've had a petrol lawnmower engine running on Paraffin.
It was a low compression sidevalve engine but still knocked horribly and had little power....
Some Spark ignition tractors ran on Paraffin/Kerosene (They cvalled it TVO, or Tractor Vapourising oil)
The Vapourising part is the key, You started them on Petrol and then when the Hot spot between the exhaust and inlet manifold had warmed up you switched over to TVO.
Remebering to switch it back to petrol before stopping
Like a Veg twin tank system!
__________________________________ Nat
If You Open Your Mind Too Much Your Brain Will Fall Out |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
cieranc Just got MTs
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Odometer: 451 Location: Darlington
|
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 12:13 am Post subject:
|
|
|
terence mckibben wrote: | Avgas is just refined kerosene. mix it 50 the cooking oil and itl be great.. off road of course, or else pay road fuel duty on it. |
Avgas is 5 star petrol, AViational GASoline. Avtur is kerosine, AViational TURbine fuel.
In terms of weight it is very similar to diesel, not much lighter at all.
Put both side by side and you'd struggle to tell the difference.
F-34 is military grade, F-35 is the civilian equivilent and has more additives such as anti-corrosion and lubricity additives.
Both have FSII (fuel system icing inhibitor) as standard.
I ran a car for years on it. When I got the car it still had a year and a half manufacturers warranty on it, so I made the consious decision to run on it. My thinking was if it knacks up within that period I'd have a reasonable chance of getting it put right FOC. If it knacked up after that time I'd have already saved the cost of a new engine.
Every friday dinnertime, there would be a problem with a wing tank on a Tornado on 15R Sqn. So of course it was necessary to drain the tank down to investigate.
Every friday I would fill up my Seat Cordoba Coupe, with the 110hp VW TDi engine in it.
It ran 600 miles most weekends for 2 years, Lossie to Darlington, on just avtur, no additives.
I sold the car to my brother who ran it for another year on avtur, out of Marham. He sold it to another rigger at Marham who ran the car for the next two years, and he was still running it on avtur when my bro moved on!
It'd done over 100,000 in our hands and rarely got filled at the forecourt.
How many more miles it'd done with the lad at Marham I don't know, at least 2 years worth.
No problems, it needed a water pump on it, did the timing belt at the same time, nothing went wrong with it I know of. Passed it's tests ok.
Ran just the same, couldn't tell the difference, didn't knock.
And the FSII comes in handy if you're heading to Norway!
(And for killing diesel weed, but thats a secret!)
__________________________________ Nothing more permanent than a temporary repair. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
paulmurray Articulating
Joined: 01 Apr 2005 Odometer: 578 Location: northern ireland
|
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 10:44 am Post subject:
|
|
|
ahh the days of running racing two strokes on avgas
__________________________________ who says leafers don't articulate |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bobbyd Winch Assistant
Joined: 20 May 2009 Odometer: 98 Location: Geelong VIC. AUST
|
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:43 am Post subject:
|
|
|
My mate has run his Pajero on AVTUR for eight years, faultless none of that black smoke when he tows his caravan up hill either.
__________________________________ 1992 Niva |
|
Back to top |
|
|
nivaman Articulating
Joined: 24 May 2006 Odometer: 929 Location: New Zealand
|
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:29 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
bobbyd wrote: | My mate has run his Pajero on AVTUR for eight years, faultless none of that black smoke when he tows his caravan up hill either. |
Looks like i might have to find me a supply
I think its called jetA1 here in NZ.
__________________________________ Lada a little car that takes you far. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
crazymac Mud Obsessed
Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Odometer: 2389 Location: Pembrokeshire, West Wales
|
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:34 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
I guess this is why we are now hearing of massive thefts of Avgas etc??
We had a 3000 litre theft down here recently. I thought it must be someone with a plane but obviously not!
Learn something new every day.
__________________________________ If I had to explain, you wouldn't understand
http://www.ww4x4.co.uk/index.php |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rossko Articulating
Joined: 23 Jan 2007 Odometer: 757
|
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
crazymac wrote: | I guess this is why we are now hearing of massive thefts of Avgas etc?? |
That might bite the theives or their supporters back. Avgas is leaded, so if you put it in a modern petrol car it trashes the oxygen sensors and cats. Okay for lawnmowers ...
__________________________________ www.glass-uk.org |
|
Back to top |
|
|
nivaman Articulating
Joined: 24 May 2006 Odometer: 929 Location: New Zealand
|
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:29 am Post subject:
|
|
|
crazymac wrote: | I guess this is why we are now hearing of massive thefts of Avgas etc??
We had a 3000 litre theft down here recently. I thought it must be someone with a plane but obviously not!
Learn something new every day. |
I did NOT say i was going to steal it.
__________________________________ Lada a little car that takes you far. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
crazymac Mud Obsessed
Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Odometer: 2389 Location: Pembrokeshire, West Wales
|
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:37 am Post subject:
|
|
|
nivaman wrote: | I did NOT say i was going to steal it. |
No one suggested you were Nivaman! LOL! I was merely stating a fact about recent thefts over here and that I hadn't realised you could run a car on the stuff!
__________________________________ If I had to explain, you wouldn't understand
http://www.ww4x4.co.uk/index.php |
|
Back to top |
|
|
terence Guest
|
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:44 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
quite right , i call all avgas avgas , the same way i call my hoover a hoover but is in fact a dyson.
broadly defined as chopper fuel or fast jet fuel.
300 tdi love running jet fuel. or as my learned colleage right points out AVTUR.
Avgas can be mixed with veggie to,10%
Avtur and veggie can also be mixed but as said only offroad. ...
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
cieranc Just got MTs
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Odometer: 451 Location: Darlington
|
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:14 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
I'm the same with recovery vehicles. A tilt and slide transporter is a Brimech, no matter who built it!
If people are putting AVGAS into petrol cars, it's not the cats and Lambda sensors I'd be worried about. It is 5 star petrol, much higher octane than normal road fuel, it will burn much hotter, probably pink, and nearly certainly damage the internals/head/piston crowns!
__________________________________ Nothing more permanent than a temporary repair. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
Rossko Articulating
Joined: 23 Jan 2007 Odometer: 757
|
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:36 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
cieranc wrote: | If people are putting AVGAS into petrol cars, it's not the cats and Lambda sensors I'd be worried about. It is 5 star petrol, much higher octane than normal road fuel, it will burn much hotter, probably pink, and nearly certainly damage the internals/head/piston crowns! |
Naw, engines pink when you put lower-octane fuel in than spec, not higher. It's the tetra-wotsit lead that would cause problems, its still in the AVGAS so that you can use it in your 1930s Tiger Moth engine.
__________________________________ www.glass-uk.org |
|
Back to top |
|
|
terence Guest
|
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Rossko wrote: | cieranc wrote: | If people are putting AVGAS into petrol cars, it's not the cats and Lambda sensors I'd be worried about. It is 5 star petrol, much higher octane than normal road fuel, it will burn much hotter, probably pink, and nearly certainly damage the internals/head/piston crowns! |
Naw, engines pink when you put lower-octane fuel in than spec, not higher. It's the tetra-wotsit lead that would cause problems, its still in the AVGAS so that you can use it in your 1930s Tiger Moth engine. |
Aye itll eat your catalyst in the cat converter, .
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
nivaman Articulating
Joined: 24 May 2006 Odometer: 929 Location: New Zealand
|
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:32 am Post subject:
|
|
|
terence mckibben wrote: |
Aye itll eat your catalyst in the cat converter, . |
No, the lead in the fuel will coat the ceramic in the converter thus rendering it useless, i personally think the converters are a band aid solution anyway.
__________________________________ Lada a little car that takes you far. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Hi Utsuri Gate Opener
Joined: 09 Jun 2007 Odometer: 30 Location: Stoke-on-Trent
|
Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:20 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
As far as I am aware there was an article in LRO last year and it said that all the test work on the TD5 was done with avgas thats why the US military were so interested in them.
__________________________________ 2000 Disco 2 Td5 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
terence Guest
|
Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:24 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
nivaman wrote: | terence mckibben wrote: |
Aye itll eat your catalyst in the cat converter, . |
No, the lead in the fuel will coat the ceramic in the converter thus rendering it useless, i personally think the converters are a band aid solution anyway. |
okay figure of speach, ill rephrase it, the cat will get fecked...
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
terence Guest
|
Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Hi Utsuri wrote: | As far as I am aware there was an article in LRO last year and it said that all the test work on the TD5 was done with avgas thats why the US military were so interested in them. |
Avtur , we need to get the acronym correct or we will get stomped by the purists. LOL
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rossko Articulating
Joined: 23 Jan 2007 Odometer: 757
|
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:24 am Post subject:
|
|
|
terence mckibben wrote: | Avtur , we need to get the acronym correct or we will get stomped by the purists. LOL |
Too right!! There's every chance of someone reading this and tipping a jerrycan marked "AVGAS" into his TD .... people really do stuff like that beacuse they read that it was okay on the internet. Don't expect the funny smell to put them off, after all it's 'special stuff'. Why, it's not only great in helicopters but it's even been endorsed by Land Rover, it now says 'ere ... ekkk
__________________________________ www.glass-uk.org |
|
Back to top |
|
|
nivaman Articulating
Joined: 24 May 2006 Odometer: 929 Location: New Zealand
|
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:12 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Agreed.
In a manner of speaking Avgas is petrol for piston engines, AVTUR or JetA1 is jet fuel for turbine engines............Correct no?.
__________________________________ Lada a little car that takes you far. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nathaniel Difflock Royalty
Joined: 13 May 2003 Odometer: 17901 Location: North, North Yorkshire
1979 Suzuki LJ
|
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
nivaman wrote: | Agreed.
In a manner of speaking Avgas is petrol for piston engines, AVTUR or JetA1 is jet fuel for turbine engines............Correct no?. |
Oui
__________________________________ Nat
If You Open Your Mind Too Much Your Brain Will Fall Out |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|