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Running jet fuel in a Diesel.

 
 
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nivaman
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Joined: 24 May 2006
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Location: New Zealand



PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 12:44 pm    Post subject: Running jet fuel in a Diesel. Reply with quote

Who has tried jet fuel in their Diesel truck?, what did it run like?, any thoughts please.
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terence
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avgas is just refined kerosene. mix it 50 the cooking oil and itl be great.. off road of course, or else pay road fuel duty on it.
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terence
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

military landies are frequently used on it and in fact the early multifuels were designed to.
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treeboa
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dont forget to take out the remove before flight pin/tags Laughing Laughing
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nivaman
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Understood Kerosene could also be used in a diesel but it burns dry so needs a dash of two stroke oil mixed with it?.
With running jet fuel in WVO filtered WVO of course, would it render the viscosity suitable to be run through the injector pump as is?.
I think here in New Zealand the jet fuel is called jetA1.

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terence
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Niva man spot on, the lack of lubrication in the Avgas is adjusted by the lube in the veg oil and the vicosity of the veg oil is adjusted by the solvent properties of the avgas..

win win scenario and it wont go lumpy in the winter ...

but illegal for road use without first declaring the fuel duty.
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The Smiths
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

terence mckibben wrote:

but illegal for road use without first declaring the fuel duty.


No it is in the UK - not sure about New Zealand though Confused

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nivaman
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Joined: 24 May 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

terence mckibben wrote:


but illegal for road use without first declaring the fuel duty.

HeHe not here Twisted Evil .
Once i get my diesel fitted i might have a go at some WVO/jet fuel mix.

Now here is a silly idea....... how to run that mix in a petrol engine, one way to find out i guess....better go find me a lawn mower engine.

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terence
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

your right it is a silly idea.

spark ignition wont work.

its a fuel air explosive for compression ignition only ! Laughing
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Nathaniel
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had a petrol lawnmower engine running on Paraffin.

It was a low compression sidevalve engine but still knocked horribly and had little power....


Some Spark ignition tractors ran on Paraffin/Kerosene (They cvalled it TVO, or Tractor Vapourising oil)

The Vapourising part is the key, You started them on Petrol and then when the Hot spot between the exhaust and inlet manifold had warmed up you switched over to TVO.

Remebering to switch it back to petrol before stopping

Like a Veg twin tank system!

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cieranc
Just got MTs


Joined: 20 Mar 2005
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Location: Darlington



PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

terence mckibben wrote:
Avgas is just refined kerosene. mix it 50 the cooking oil and itl be great.. off road of course, or else pay road fuel duty on it.


Avgas is 5 star petrol, AViational GASoline. Avtur is kerosine, AViational TURbine fuel.
In terms of weight it is very similar to diesel, not much lighter at all.
Put both side by side and you'd struggle to tell the difference.
F-34 is military grade, F-35 is the civilian equivilent and has more additives such as anti-corrosion and lubricity additives.
Both have FSII (fuel system icing inhibitor) as standard.

I ran a car for years on it. When I got the car it still had a year and a half manufacturers warranty on it, so I made the consious decision to run on it. My thinking was if it knacks up within that period I'd have a reasonable chance of getting it put right FOC. If it knacked up after that time I'd have already saved the cost of a new engine.

Every friday dinnertime, there would be a problem with a wing tank on a Tornado on 15R Sqn. So of course it was necessary to drain the tank down to investigate.

Every friday I would fill up my Seat Cordoba Coupe, with the 110hp VW TDi engine in it.
It ran 600 miles most weekends for 2 years, Lossie to Darlington, on just avtur, no additives.
I sold the car to my brother who ran it for another year on avtur, out of Marham. He sold it to another rigger at Marham who ran the car for the next two years, and he was still running it on avtur when my bro moved on!

It'd done over 100,000 in our hands and rarely got filled at the forecourt.
How many more miles it'd done with the lad at Marham I don't know, at least 2 years worth.

No problems, it needed a water pump on it, did the timing belt at the same time, nothing went wrong with it I know of. Passed it's tests ok.
Ran just the same, couldn't tell the difference, didn't knock.

And the FSII comes in handy if you're heading to Norway!
(And for killing diesel weed, but thats a secret!)

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paulmurray
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Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ahh the days of running racing two strokes on avgas Cool
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bobbyd
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mate has run his Pajero on AVTUR for eight years, faultless none of that black smoke when he tows his caravan up hill either.
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nivaman
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bobbyd wrote:
My mate has run his Pajero on AVTUR for eight years, faultless none of that black smoke when he tows his caravan up hill either.

Looks like i might have to find me a supply Twisted Evil
I think its called jetA1 here in NZ.

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crazymac
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess this is why we are now hearing of massive thefts of Avgas etc??

We had a 3000 litre theft down here recently. I thought it must be someone with a plane but obviously not!

Learn something new every day. Cool

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Rossko
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazymac wrote:
I guess this is why we are now hearing of massive thefts of Avgas etc??


That might bite the theives or their supporters back. Avgas is leaded, so if you put it in a modern petrol car it trashes the oxygen sensors and cats. Okay for lawnmowers ...

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nivaman
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazymac wrote:
I guess this is why we are now hearing of massive thefts of Avgas etc??

We had a 3000 litre theft down here recently. I thought it must be someone with a plane but obviously not!

Learn something new every day. Cool

I did NOT say i was going to steal it.

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crazymac
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nivaman wrote:
I did NOT say i was going to steal it.


No one suggested you were Nivaman! LOL! I was merely stating a fact about recent thefts over here and that I hadn't realised you could run a car on the stuff!

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terence
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

quite right , i call all avgas avgas , the same way i call my hoover a hoover but is in fact a dyson.

broadly defined as chopper fuel or fast jet fuel.

300 tdi love running jet fuel. or as my learned colleage right points out AVTUR.

Avgas can be mixed with veggie to,10%
Avtur and veggie can also be mixed but as said only offroad. ...
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cieranc
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing I'm the same with recovery vehicles. A tilt and slide transporter is a Brimech, no matter who built it!

If people are putting AVGAS into petrol cars, it's not the cats and Lambda sensors I'd be worried about. It is 5 star petrol, much higher octane than normal road fuel, it will burn much hotter, probably pink, and nearly certainly damage the internals/head/piston crowns!

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Rossko
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cieranc wrote:
If people are putting AVGAS into petrol cars, it's not the cats and Lambda sensors I'd be worried about. It is 5 star petrol, much higher octane than normal road fuel, it will burn much hotter, probably pink, and nearly certainly damage the internals/head/piston crowns!


Naw, engines pink when you put lower-octane fuel in than spec, not higher. It's the tetra-wotsit lead that would cause problems, its still in the AVGAS so that you can use it in your 1930s Tiger Moth engine.

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terence
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rossko wrote:
cieranc wrote:
If people are putting AVGAS into petrol cars, it's not the cats and Lambda sensors I'd be worried about. It is 5 star petrol, much higher octane than normal road fuel, it will burn much hotter, probably pink, and nearly certainly damage the internals/head/piston crowns!


Naw, engines pink when you put lower-octane fuel in than spec, not higher. It's the tetra-wotsit lead that would cause problems, its still in the AVGAS so that you can use it in your 1930s Tiger Moth engine.


Aye itll eat your catalyst in the cat converter, .
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nivaman
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

terence mckibben wrote:


Aye itll eat your catalyst in the cat converter, .

No, the lead in the fuel will coat the ceramic in the converter thus rendering it useless, i personally think the converters are a band aid solution anyway.

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Hi Utsuri
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Joined: 09 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I am aware there was an article in LRO last year and it said that all the test work on the TD5 was done with avgas thats why the US military were so interested in them.
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terence
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nivaman wrote:
terence mckibben wrote:


Aye itll eat your catalyst in the cat converter, .

No, the lead in the fuel will coat the ceramic in the converter thus rendering it useless, i personally think the converters are a band aid solution anyway.


okay figure of speach, ill rephrase it, the cat will get fecked...
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terence
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Utsuri wrote:
As far as I am aware there was an article in LRO last year and it said that all the test work on the TD5 was done with avgas thats why the US military were so interested in them.


Avtur , we need to get the acronym correct or we will get stomped by the purists. LOL
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Rossko
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

terence mckibben wrote:
Avtur , we need to get the acronym correct or we will get stomped by the purists. LOL


Too right!! There's every chance of someone reading this and tipping a jerrycan marked "AVGAS" into his TD .... people really do stuff like that beacuse they read that it was okay on the internet. Don't expect the funny smell to put them off, after all it's 'special stuff'. Why, it's not only great in helicopters but it's even been endorsed by Land Rover, it now says 'ere ... ekkk

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nivaman
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed.
In a manner of speaking Avgas is petrol for piston engines, AVTUR or JetA1 is jet fuel for turbine engines............Correct no?.

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Nathaniel
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nivaman wrote:
Agreed.
In a manner of speaking Avgas is petrol for piston engines, AVTUR or JetA1 is jet fuel for turbine engines............Correct no?.


Oui

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