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wearingreensocks Gate Opener
Joined: 13 Mar 2009 Odometer: 6 Location: BRUM
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:12 pm Post subject: indicator destruction
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Hello off roading peeps.
I’m doing some research for a college project, and I’m hoping to gain some external opinions and knowledge from you 4x4 battered folk to get me some much needed good grades.
My project involves investigating methods of preventing front indicator damage when under light impact from overgrown shrubbery. I am aiming to solve this problem by finding a more durable material, like a transparent rubber or a polycarbonate.
Basically, a questionnaire forms part of my project criteria, so any comments or criticisms to the questions below would be greatly appreciated:
-Does this problem exist, or is there a method of avoiding this situation?
-Would you consider paying more for durable indicators over the standard brittle ones?
-Do you think changing the lens material to one more flexible is the best way of solving this problem?
-How do you avoid breaking your indicators?
Thanks peeps
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TheBigPurpleOne Off-Road Guru
Joined: 06 Oct 2008 Odometer: 1692 Location: Macclesfield
1987 Land Rover 90 TD
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject:
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lamp guards stop most damage... (need some for the defender)
also if you made them from thicker plastic they might survive better
__________________________________ Thanks
Nick
CHEAP YOUNG DRIVERS INSURANCE FROM 8th OF FEB
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facomkid Articulating
Joined: 31 May 2008 Odometer: 739 Location: aston clinton- aylsbury
1991 Range Rover 3 Door Classic
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muddymesser Mud Obsessed
Joined: 17 Jun 2008 Odometer: 7819 Location: preston
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject:
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would be worth doing on indicators
maybe indicator and side light on a sj as they are in a fairly weak bumper
but most people fit guards or move them out of the way
what about rear lights ? as they are usually 1 light cluster per side
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stickers and graphics made to order |
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waveydave Mud Obsessed
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Odometer: 2740 Location: waveyvillie oop norf
1994 Land Rover Discovery
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:36 pm Post subject:
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Cheepest way is to be more carefull, and just take it on the chin when you do kill a lamp !
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mrcheese Mud Obsessed
Joined: 14 Oct 2003 Odometer: 6339
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:36 pm Post subject:
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How to avoid damage. Try to drive more carefully rather than rely on tougher components.
I drive a 90. Only ever lost one front lens in 5 years. At £0.50 each it is no big issue. I have wrecked two front wings and the lenses have survived.
I did break two rear lenses whilst reversing into bushes. Branches pushed through the guards and broke the lenses. Guards were untouched.
Personally, I don't see that there is a market need. Not trying to be negative, just trying to be honest.
Paul.
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mrcheese Mud Obsessed
Joined: 14 Oct 2003 Odometer: 6339
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:37 pm Post subject:
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Wavey beat me to it
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crazymac Mud Obsessed
Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Odometer: 2389 Location: Pembrokeshire, West Wales
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:50 pm Post subject:
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There's also a company that do clear light protectors, Bearmach I think?
Which are very good I hear.
The one complaint i've had in the past about the metal ones, is when you hit something solid they tend to bend back and break the lens or something else.
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mrcheese Mud Obsessed
Joined: 14 Oct 2003 Odometer: 6339
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:28 pm Post subject:
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Good point Crazymac. Metal ones can bend back and damage the wings. Or rip off!
Suddenly a broken lens seems trivial.
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Roger Mud Obsessed
Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Odometer: 2050 Location: Redditch Worcestershire
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:55 pm Post subject:
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Toyota lense's are flush to the body work and seem to survive better than most.
Also the height is to our advantage, as most branches that could cause damage are higher than the lamp's.
Metal grill style protector's can be a bad idea as apart from being pushed in due to point loading, the fixing screws inevitably lead to corrosion and then we are in to a whole new ball-park.
Roger
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RichardD Marshall
Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Odometer: 22856 Location: State of Confusion
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:01 pm Post subject:
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I've swapped Volvanimal's to LED which are solid and more durable.
being 4.5 feet off the ground helps as well
__________________________________ Poking the Grim Reaper with a stick then running away. The devil made me do it but God said it was okay with him. |
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terence Guest
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Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:45 am Post subject:
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a polycarbonate called lexan ( trade name )
its what riot ( sorry public disorder ) protective shields are made from.
if a disgruntled rangers fan cant kick through it , then a branch wont either.
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marcusjclifford Gate Opener
Joined: 13 Jan 2008 Odometer: 40 Location: St. Cyrus, Aberdeenshire
2003 Land Rover Defender
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Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:52 pm Post subject:
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As Terence says Lexan is incredibly impact resistant, the demonstrations I've had of it include being whacked with a big metal hammer and shot at with a shotgun - the pellets scratched it, but did not penetrate.
The issue with any solution, e.g. lens material, metal guards etc is that the force that would previously have broken the part i.e. the plastic lens will now be transfered to what the guard is attached to, often I've seen branches that would have done minimal damage cause a "ripple" in the wing as the force has been transfered to the weaker metal and it has bent.
As others have said a cheap "weakest link" is far better than an expensive one!
__________________________________ Marcus Clifford
Land Rover Defender 90 TD5 (2003) |
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teamidris Mud Obsessed
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Odometer: 3372 Location: Staffordshire UK
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Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject:
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Rather than making it stronger or more flexible in the lens, it would be better if the whole assembly could move back. Say spring mounted?
Personally I get round it by being off road only. Then any running lights or spot lights can be fitted away from corners or extremities. But on one offroad/road motor we had years ago we made the corner lights and flashers removable with one screw. Connection was by trailer socket. You could do serious trialing and go home with clean lights
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Jeepster Gate Opener
Joined: 26 Jan 2009 Odometer: 25 Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:13 am Post subject:
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Alternatively just buy and early jeep or early landrover with the lights mounted inboard for that very purpose of protection.
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TheBigPurpleOne Off-Road Guru
Joined: 06 Oct 2008 Odometer: 1692 Location: Macclesfield
1987 Land Rover 90 TD
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Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:27 pm Post subject:
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its still gna wipe ya indicators and side lights out
__________________________________ Thanks
Nick
CHEAP YOUNG DRIVERS INSURANCE FROM 8th OF FEB
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Jeepster Gate Opener
Joined: 26 Jan 2009 Odometer: 25 Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:01 pm Post subject:
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Okay, it is just the older jeeps then. The indicators were inboard below the headlights
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wearingreensocks Gate Opener
Joined: 13 Mar 2009 Odometer: 6 Location: BRUM
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Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject:
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Brilliant ideas flowing about peeps
does anyone want to finish the rest of mi project off???
the idea of moving them inboard is a good one - i will check the lighting regulations on monday to find out the positioning limits.
although light guards probably provide reliable protection, i find that they push the nose of the vehicle out too far - making them more liable to find a tree which would otherwise have been avoided - and more importantly, a larger vehicle is more likely to hit those dam orange canes which reduce my chances of winning RTV's..
i will look into that Lexan material terence and marcus suggested - although as they said, this just pushes the damage to the next item. my prototype un photo'd below, uses a transparent rubber, which i've calculated can stretch enough to easily reach the bulb - hence not pushing the damage to anything significant (all theory though, until i crash it...)
my finger is just like a stick
and "driving more carefully" isn't an option - it's boring...
Anyway, I appreciate the input dudes[/img]
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teamidris Mud Obsessed
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Odometer: 3372 Location: Staffordshire UK
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Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:24 pm Post subject:
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Needs the funny disperser lens part though, as the above is an MOT failure. Has focus, but no disperser Will apear as a fixed point with insuficient area.
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TheBigPurpleOne Off-Road Guru
Joined: 06 Oct 2008 Odometer: 1692 Location: Macclesfield
1987 Land Rover 90 TD
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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:37 am Post subject:
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the lights need to be 6 inches from the outside edge of the vehicle
__________________________________ Thanks
Nick
CHEAP YOUNG DRIVERS INSURANCE FROM 8th OF FEB
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wearingreensocks Gate Opener
Joined: 13 Mar 2009 Odometer: 6 Location: BRUM
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Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:52 pm Post subject:
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hello again difflock peeps.
after talking with a land rover design engineer, i gained a little bit of knowledge regarding some lighting regulations: (i apologise to all those old skool imperial folks – it’s all in “mm”)
• The maximum distance from the side of the vehicle the indicators can be (excluding mirrors), is 400mm – so in the case of my discovery, the indicators mustn’t venture further in that my headlight surround. Also, with the vehicle being wider than 1400mm the two indicators must be at least 500mm apart.
• The indicator must be a minimum of 40mm away from any other lighting system.
• Maximum height of the indicator position is 1500mm (unless the vehicle design makes this impractical, where it can then be 2300mm)
• Minimum height 350mm
• From the indicators’ forward center line; it must be visible 80° outwards, and 45° inwards.
• As there are no regulations governing “size of illuminated area,” diffusers/disperser in the lens are not necessary (good news for my prototype indicators)
Any further ideas and comment are desperately invited... please...
thanks
ivan
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TheBigPurpleOne Off-Road Guru
Joined: 06 Oct 2008 Odometer: 1692 Location: Macclesfield
1987 Land Rover 90 TD
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Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject:
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i cant see the indicators being 40mm from othe lights in those lights that are like the RAF logo
__________________________________ Thanks
Nick
CHEAP YOUNG DRIVERS INSURANCE FROM 8th OF FEB
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wearingreensocks Gate Opener
Joined: 13 Mar 2009 Odometer: 6 Location: BRUM
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:24 pm Post subject:
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Sorry, I didn't explain clearly; 40mm apart from the bulb of any other lighting system
cheers
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TheBigPurpleOne Off-Road Guru
Joined: 06 Oct 2008 Odometer: 1692 Location: Macclesfield
1987 Land Rover 90 TD
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:29 pm Post subject:
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o ok... still i think theres less then 40mm between them... not sure though
__________________________________ Thanks
Nick
CHEAP YOUNG DRIVERS INSURANCE FROM 8th OF FEB
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