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indicator destruction

 
 
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wearingreensocks
Gate Opener


Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Odometer: 6
Location: BRUM



PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:12 pm    Post subject: indicator destruction Reply with quote

Hello off roading peeps.
I’m doing some research for a college project, and I’m hoping to gain some external opinions and knowledge from you 4x4 battered folk to get me some much needed good grades.

My project involves investigating methods of preventing front indicator damage when under light impact from overgrown shrubbery. I am aiming to solve this problem by finding a more durable material, like a transparent rubber or a polycarbonate.



Basically, a questionnaire forms part of my project criteria, so any comments or criticisms to the questions below would be greatly appreciated:

-Does this problem exist, or is there a method of avoiding this situation?

-Would you consider paying more for durable indicators over the standard brittle ones?

-Do you think changing the lens material to one more flexible is the best way of solving this problem?

-How do you avoid breaking your indicators?

Thanks peeps
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TheBigPurpleOne
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Odometer: 1692
Location: Macclesfield


1987 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lamp guards stop most damage... (need some for the defender)
also if you made them from thicker plastic they might survive better

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Nick

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facomkid
Articulating


Joined: 31 May 2008
Odometer: 739
Location: aston clinton- aylsbury


1991 Range Rover 3 Door Classic

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a wrap round bull bar usally stops it or grills that bolt on over the light's

http://www.devon4x4.com/products_a/****/rear-lamp-guards.html

http://www.devon4x4.com/products_a/****/hi...-lamp-guards.html

http://www.devon4x4.com/products_a/****/de...mp-guard-set.html

just a few idears

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range rover classic, shared blood sweat and tears on the bloody thing
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muddymesser
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Odometer: 7819
Location: preston



PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

would be worth doing on indicators

maybe indicator and side light on a sj as they are in a fairly weak bumper

but most people fit guards or move them out of the way

what about rear lights ? as they are usually 1 light cluster per side

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waveydave
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Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Odometer: 2740
Location: waveyvillie oop norf


1994 Land Rover Discovery

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheepest way is to be more carefull, and just take it on the chin when you do kill a lamp !
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mrcheese
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 14 Oct 2003
Odometer: 6339




PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How to avoid damage. Try to drive more carefully rather than rely on tougher components.

I drive a 90. Only ever lost one front lens in 5 years. At £0.50 each it is no big issue. I have wrecked two front wings and the lenses have survived.

I did break two rear lenses whilst reversing into bushes. Branches pushed through the guards and broke the lenses. Guards were untouched.

Personally, I don't see that there is a market need. Not trying to be negative, just trying to be honest.

Paul.
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mrcheese
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Joined: 14 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wavey beat me to it Laughing
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crazymac
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Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Odometer: 2389
Location: Pembrokeshire, West Wales



PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's also a company that do clear light protectors, Bearmach I think?

Which are very good I hear.

The one complaint i've had in the past about the metal ones, is when you hit something solid they tend to bend back and break the lens or something else.

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mrcheese
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Joined: 14 Oct 2003
Odometer: 6339




PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point Crazymac. Metal ones can bend back and damage the wings. Or rip off!
Suddenly a broken lens seems trivial.
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Roger
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Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Odometer: 2050
Location: Redditch Worcestershire



PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toyota lense's are flush to the body work and seem to survive better than most.

Also the height is to our advantage, as most branches that could cause damage are higher than the lamp's.

Metal grill style protector's can be a bad idea as apart from being pushed in due to point loading, the fixing screws inevitably lead to corrosion and then we are in to a whole new ball-park.

Roger
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RichardD
Marshall


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Odometer: 22856
Location: State of Confusion



PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've swapped Volvanimal's to LED which are solid and more durable.





being 4.5 feet off the ground helps as well Laughing

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terence
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a polycarbonate called lexan ( trade name )

its what riot ( sorry public disorder ) protective shields are made from.

if a disgruntled rangers fan cant kick through it , then a branch wont either.
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marcusjclifford
Gate Opener


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Odometer: 40
Location: St. Cyrus, Aberdeenshire


2003 Land Rover Defender

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Terence says Lexan is incredibly impact resistant, the demonstrations I've had of it include being whacked with a big metal hammer and shot at with a shotgun - the pellets scratched it, but did not penetrate.

The issue with any solution, e.g. lens material, metal guards etc is that the force that would previously have broken the part i.e. the plastic lens will now be transfered to what the guard is attached to, often I've seen branches that would have done minimal damage cause a "ripple" in the wing as the force has been transfered to the weaker metal and it has bent.

As others have said a cheap "weakest link" is far better than an expensive one! Idea

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Land Rover Defender 90 TD5 (2003)
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teamidris
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Joined: 24 Feb 2008
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Location: Staffordshire UK



PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather than making it stronger or more flexible in the lens, it would be better if the whole assembly could move back. Say spring mounted?

Personally I get round it by being off road only. Then any running lights or spot lights can be fitted away from corners or extremities. But on one offroad/road motor we had years ago we made the corner lights and flashers removable with one screw. Connection was by trailer socket. You could do serious trialing and go home with clean lights Very Happy

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Jeepster
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Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Odometer: 25
Location: Aberdeenshire



PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alternatively just buy and early jeep or early landrover with the lights mounted inboard for that very purpose of protection.
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TheBigPurpleOne
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Odometer: 1692
Location: Macclesfield


1987 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its still gna wipe ya indicators and side lights out
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Nick

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Jeepster
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Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Odometer: 25
Location: Aberdeenshire



PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, it is just the older jeeps then. The indicators were inboard below the headlights
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wearingreensocks
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Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Odometer: 6
Location: BRUM



PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brilliant ideas flowing about peeps
does anyone want to finish the rest of mi project off??? Very Happy

the idea of moving them inboard is a good one - i will check the lighting regulations on monday to find out the positioning limits.

although light guards probably provide reliable protection, i find that they push the nose of the vehicle out too far - making them more liable to find a tree which would otherwise have been avoided - and more importantly, a larger vehicle is more likely to hit those dam orange canes which reduce my chances of winning RTV's.. Sad

i will look into that Lexan material terence and marcus suggested - although as they said, this just pushes the damage to the next item. my prototype un photo'd below, uses a transparent rubber, which i've calculated can stretch enough to easily reach the bulb - hence not pushing the damage to anything significant (all theory though, until i crash it...)



my finger is just like a stick

and "driving more carefully" isn't an option - it's boring...

Anyway, I appreciate the input dudes[/img]
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teamidris
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Odometer: 3372
Location: Staffordshire UK



PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Needs the funny disperser lens part though, as the above is an MOT failure. Has focus, but no disperser Sad Will apear as a fixed point with insuficient area.
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TheBigPurpleOne
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Odometer: 1692
Location: Macclesfield


1987 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the lights need to be 6 inches from the outside edge of the vehicle
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Nick

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wearingreensocks
Gate Opener


Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Odometer: 6
Location: BRUM



PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hello again difflock peeps. Very Happy

after talking with a land rover design engineer, i gained a little bit of knowledge regarding some lighting regulations: (i apologise to all those old skool imperial folks – it’s all in “mm”)

• The maximum distance from the side of the vehicle the indicators can be (excluding mirrors), is 400mm – so in the case of my discovery, the indicators mustn’t venture further in that my headlight surround. Also, with the vehicle being wider than 1400mm the two indicators must be at least 500mm apart.

• The indicator must be a minimum of 40mm away from any other lighting system.

• Maximum height of the indicator position is 1500mm (unless the vehicle design makes this impractical, where it can then be 2300mm)

• Minimum height 350mm

• From the indicators’ forward center line; it must be visible 80° outwards, and 45° inwards.

• As there are no regulations governing “size of illuminated area,” diffusers/disperser in the lens are not necessary (good news for my prototype indicators) Cool

Any further ideas and comment are desperately invited... please...
thanks
ivan Cool

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TheBigPurpleOne
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Odometer: 1692
Location: Macclesfield


1987 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i cant see the indicators being 40mm from othe lights in those lights that are like the RAF logo
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wearingreensocks
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Joined: 13 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I didn't explain clearly; 40mm apart from the bulb of any other lighting system

cheers
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TheBigPurpleOne
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Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Odometer: 1692
Location: Macclesfield


1987 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

o ok... still i think theres less then 40mm between them... not sure though
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Nick

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