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TD5 on veg oil?

 
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Difflock Forum Index -> LPG, Bio Diesel and Alternative Fuels
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TheBigPurpleOne
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Odometer: 1692
Location: Macclesfield


1987 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:37 pm    Post subject: TD5 on veg oil? Reply with quote

hey guys
just wondering what your advice and recomendations would be to run a TD5 on WVO?

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Nick

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M&S
Just got MTs


Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Odometer: 278
Location: County Durham


2004 Land Rover Discovery

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DON'T would be my advice.

The handbook says the vehicle should not even be run on bio diesel. And I doubt that the fuel pump would manage to lift the fuel out of the tank, never mind get it as far as the injectors.

I reckon the savings you think you'll make will be wiped out in repair bills.

But I'm always interested to hear from someone who has done this... Shocked
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terence
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M&S wrote:
DON'T would be my advice.

The handbook says the vehicle should not even be run on bio diesel. And I doubt that the fuel pump would manage to lift the fuel out of the tank, never mind get it as far as the injectors.

I reckon the savings you think you'll make will be wiped out in repair bills.

But I'm always interested to hear from someone who has done this... Shocked


YOU CAN RUN IT ON BIO no probs Ie properly transesterified fuel.

NOT SVO.. not even blends mixes of any kind...

The fuel rail cant handle the extra viscous fuel.

the unit injectors are too fine for the viscosity and atomisation cant occur properly.

you have been warned..

Not sure whether anyone has a twin tank conversion on one. Ive never heard of one being done, in theory its possible with the elsbett system on a single tank but way tooooooo expensive.
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TheBigPurpleOne
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Odometer: 1692
Location: Macclesfield


1987 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fair enough i though that might be the outcome from this lol
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YotaDave
Articulating


Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Odometer: 958
Location: Bristol


1994 Toyota Landcruiser

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A mates dad tried WVO in his TD5, was fine at first then got more and more sluggish......................... chug....................... chug.................... chough................... BOOM!

Yup it died! Turned out to be serious case of ring gumming where the injectors weren't man enough the pistons were forcing their way up and down the gunky cylinders and the veg got through into the engine oil. It blew the big end out of the sump! He did a lot of mileage but it only took 6 months to kill it.

So thats a no to running veg in a TD5, my advice would be to stick an Isuzu, Diahatsu, Nissan or Yota lump in it and then you can run what you want Smile

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terence
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigDaveGrrr wrote:
A mates dad tried WVO in his TD5, was fine at first then got more and more sluggish......................... chug....................... chug.................... chough................... BOOM!

Yup it died! Turned out to be serious case of ring gumming where the injectors weren't man enough the pistons were forcing their way up and down the gunky cylinders and the veg got through into the engine oil. It blew the big end out of the sump! He did a lot of mileage but it only took 6 months to kill it.

So thats a no to running veg in a TD5, my advice would be to stick an Isuzu, Diahatsu, Nissan or Yota lump in it and then you can run what you want Smile


I find this amazing .. any photos. how it even ran on it is frankly incredible. Id love to know more.

fascinated....
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TheBigPurpleOne
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Odometer: 1692
Location: Macclesfield


1987 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what do you reckon to the 2.5 td rodeo engine on wvo then? lol
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Nick

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RichardD
Marshall


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Odometer: 22856
Location: State of Confusion



PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So far I have looked at 12 different car manuals from Ford, Renault, Peugot, Landrover amongst others and not one of them recommends any fuel except ordinary pump diesel with <5% biodiesel. Probably because it's untested and therefore unwarrantied.

I will soon be running biodiesel in my TD5 and in the wife's Touran although I'll be a bit canny about 100% in hers until out of warranty (next feb) mind you at only 3,500 miles pa, it's not really a huge problem.

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TheBigPurpleOne
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Odometer: 1692
Location: Macclesfield


1987 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

richard any update of veggie in the td5?
how are you intending to do it?

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Nick

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terence
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You CANNOT run a TD5 on veggie... read the threads...

it has to be biodiesel.
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TheBigPurpleOne
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Odometer: 1692
Location: Macclesfield


1987 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oops i meant biodiesel when i asked the question to richard...
just wondering though whats stopping you? im guessing one thing is the injectors are too fine? but wouldnt a heated 50/50 mix get around that?

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Nick

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terence
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in theory specific unit injectors could be used. but to the best of my knowledge elsbett dont make them for it.


Biodiesel is Okay though.

to answer your question the viscosity prohibits atomisation and the pressure in the fuel rail would be immense.

that and the fuel lift pump cant cope with the viscous liquid.

thinning the veggiw with diesel is to hit and miss, not something i would try personally. TDI fine its more forgiving.

If anyone has converted one id love to see it.
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TheBigPurpleOne
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Odometer: 1692
Location: Macclesfield


1987 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fair enough...
its just i saw a heater kit on eblag and it said td5 on it...just got me wondering thats all... i mean 80 degree oil is meant to be as fluid as diesel so if you have a heater infront of the pump and filter and one near the engine... it would minimise damage but theres still the problem of heating whats in the fuel rail and injectors.... maybe an engine preheater so when you start it its at operating temp?

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Nick

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terence
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no the fuel rail actually has a fuel cooler its plebty hot enough.

the fuel just wont atomise with the fine tolerances in the piezo ( sp ) injectors.

transesterified fuel to en 1424 specs its as near to mineral diesel as it gets...

heating a TD5's fuel isnt enough it has to get from the fuel tank to the engine thats the first hurdle...
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TheBigPurpleOne
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Odometer: 1692
Location: Macclesfield


1987 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just thought if it was heated it could get to the engine well enough then after that you have the prob of the injectors to sort
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Nick

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Nathaniel
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 13 May 2003
Odometer: 17901
Location: North, North Yorkshire


1979 Suzuki LJ

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try it if you want - we're not stopping you.

BUT first.

Price yourself up a Set of Injectors and a Fuel pump!

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Nat

If You Open Your Mind Too Much Your Brain Will Fall Out
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TheBigPurpleOne
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Odometer: 1692
Location: Macclesfield


1987 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im not totally daft... i like to work out solutions to problems... i wonder if there are some suitable injectors that are cheaper Laughing
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Nick

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Nathaniel
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 13 May 2003
Odometer: 17901
Location: North, North Yorkshire


1979 Suzuki LJ

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're far from Daft, But I think there is far far too much scope for expensive damage to make it worthwile.

Save £500 in fuel but spend £1k putting the engine right?


Buy a Veg safe car if you wanna have cheap motoring, Pug 205/405, Old Merc Diesel (OM602) Daihatsu Fourtrak.
Hell even a 200/300TDI would be better....

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Nat

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TheBigPurpleOne
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Odometer: 1692
Location: Macclesfield


1987 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i suppose lol i just love my 110 haha
might get a second 110 for more serious offroading and chuck veggie in that

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Nick

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RichardD
Marshall


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Odometer: 22856
Location: State of Confusion



PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done about 1000 miles on Biodiesel and although the quality has varied as we've experimented with processors and filtering systems, the worst has been difficult starting and LOADS of smoke through to it spilling everywhere because I'm too impatient to pour it in slowly.

Coincidently, I assume, my fuel pump failed mainly due to old age and perished pickup pipes but now we have proper filtration it starts easily and runs perfectly. The fact it costs ****** all to produce and irritates my tree hugging neighbour is even better.

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TheBigPurpleOne
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Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Odometer: 1692
Location: Macclesfield


1987 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what method/system do you use to produce it?
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Nick

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RichardD
Marshall


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Odometer: 22856
Location: State of Confusion



PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a stainless steel system but the actual processor is less relevant than the whole setup. I'm not exactly an expert so perhaps someone else could advise you on processors?
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TheBigPurpleOne
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Odometer: 1692
Location: Macclesfield


1987 Land Rover 90 TD

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks mate
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Nick

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