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1600 conversion write up for you lot.
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Andy Hamilton
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Odometer: 2772
Location: Deep in Northumberland mud



PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:42 pm    Post subject: 1600 conversion write up for you lot. Reply with quote

Here is my write up, before I add it to my website. Please feel free to be my teacher, get your red pens ready.

Thanks for all the people who I gathered the information off.

This is my explanation of how I fitted a Suzuki Vitara 1600 8V engine into my Samurai

Things you need, either new or from the donor:
From the 1600:
· Complete engine with dizzy, alternator, Carb,

From the 1300:
· Flywheel
· Clutch –Just buy new you cheapskate!
· Original 5 speed gear box
· Any 1300 or 1600 starter which still works.
· Original exhaust.
· Radiator
· Throttle cable.
· Clutch cable mounting bracket

First thing to do is get the car secure and ready for removing the engine.
Remove the battery.
Drain the gearbox oil – It does not really need drained but when you remove the gearbox it could go everywhere, you have been warned!
Disconnect everything attached to the engine including radiator.
Lift engine and gearbox out complete.
Make it look like this:


Remove sh*t guard fitted over the bottom of the flywheel (2x10mm bolts)
Unbolt the starter motor.
Remove the 4 bolts holding the gearbox to the engine.
Split the engine and gearbox.
Remove old clutch and fly wheel from both engines.
Fit the 1300 flywheel to the 1600 engine. Tighten the bolts to 65NM.
Fit new clutch, if you feel around the edges you can centre it whilst tightening it down. This will save you buying an alignment tool.
Remove the 2 captive bolts from the bell housing using mole grips. Some are tight and some just turn out.


Offer up the conversion plate (my is from Rob Storr)
The counter sunk bolts supplied are standard Metric thread where as the original captive bolts are Metric fine pitch. I have done this conversion with 2 gearboxes and it always cuts its own thread with no problems.


Mate the gearbox to the engine.
Tighten the 4 bolts holding it all together.
Refit the starter.
Fit sh*t guard
I ran a bead of silicone sealer around the starter, conversion plate and bell housing (personal preference)


The engine mounts are easier than people make out.

I used the original Samurai mounts bolted to the engine.
The only one that needs adjusted is the drives side.
Imagine where this mount would be without the spreader plate


Here is where I drilled the chassis mount.


I now think it is about 10mm too far back.
You use the Sammy mounts minus the C shaped spreader (you may wish to drill the locator hole just above it)
You can get into bolt it up but my sausages would not fit, 30 seconds with a grinder makes changing the mounts a one minute job if they ever break.



Now fit the original 1300 clutch bracket to the engine.

Refit the engine in the hole as if it was a 1300 engine.
Connect everything back up.

Here lies the point at which you have to start making small modifications to make the engine function in the way it needs to be.
To get the original air filter to fit you will need a 1” piece of common drainpipe. Put it on then add the metal carb cover on and screw it down. When it goes on it will be an interference fit pushing the drainpipe inside the metal. I then sealed it with silicon.
I used a piece of pipe between the crankcase vent and the original air filter.

Wiring:
The Carb, Starter, Temperature sensor, Oil sensor and dizzy have the same wiring (even the same colours in most cases)
The alternator uses 3 wires, one thin one is called D+, this is a spade terminal into the back of the alternator. The other 2 (thick) need ring terminals and bolted to the brass fitting on rear of the alternator.
Once all the wiring, plumbing and oils are checked and refilled.
You’re set to go on a test drive!


Other thing that you may consider but I never felt was necessary.
Body lift – definitely needed if you want to use the vitara top mounted air filter.
Fitting the 1300 Sump, needed if you have no spring lift. Some people just fit 1-2” spacers on the bump stops to stop the axle moving up and coming into contact with the 1600 sump.
The water hose rail fitted to the 1300 can be bolted to the 1600 to keep all the hoses just in the right location – Found out too late!
The temperature sender may be different between the two engines but my guage does not work anyway.


Good luck
Andy H www.inmud.co.uk

__________________________________
I sell Bosch plug leads for suzuki's on ebay. I also give discount to difflockers!
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Andy Hamilton
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Odometer: 2772
Location: Deep in Northumberland mud



PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with removing the front if you can but mine is impossible. Every nut and bolt is rusted solid!
We had to use an angle grinder on my brothes old car.

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Kitesurf
Difflock Royalty


Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Odometer: 14197
Location: Luton, Beds


1994 Toyota Surf

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent write-up Andrew. The link is already bookmarked in my favourites folder for when the time comes.

Prolly won't be long now before I consider following the Vit conversion path. Vits are becoming cheap as chips, whereas SJs are now gaining antique value. Laughing

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Brettyboy
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Odometer: 1298
Location: Exeter,Devon


1989 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes excellent write up Andrew,everything i will be needing to know,vitara engine is ready to come out Wink
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Offroad Su'd,Rear Disc Braked,Rocklobstered,Caged,Lifted,Winched & D-Flexed Sammy White Van Man

I'm a Devon Granite Basher
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dunk
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Odometer: 1816
Location: worcester



PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great write up Andy, just saved it to my favorites. Its one of my jobs for x-mass Laughing
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the_undertaker
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Joined: 02 Feb 2005
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Location: In The Fin'



PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
· Original exhaust.

IIRC the exhaust port sizes are different, so you should be using a 1600 manifold to avoid choking the engine.I used a Janspeed manifold with mine and had to do some heating and bending where there was a small meeting with the chassis.
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Andy Hamilton
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Odometer: 2772
Location: Deep in Northumberland mud



PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I done mine the vitaras front exhaust had just been replaced and they had sheared the bolts into the manifold. That ended up in the bin.
The exhaust gasket was the same from both engines (or at least it was on mine) so I just bolted the 1300 exhaust to it. That's not saying it was correct to do so.

It certainly does not feel like it is holding back on power even at the higher rev range.

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rhinoman
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Odometer: 3277
Location: Brinkworth, Wilts



PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_undertaker wrote:
Quote:
· Original exhaust.

IIRC the exhaust port sizes are different, so you should be using a 1600 manifold to avoid choking the engine


Yes, quite different.

__________________________________
2000 Vitara 4u2, 3+3 lift, 33s, winch, safari rack, steel front axle and 5:83 R&Ps, LWB brakes
1986 SJ413K Pickup, 1.6 conversion
2006 Jimny JLX+, stock
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Andy Hamilton
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Odometer: 2772
Location: Deep in Northumberland mud



PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oops, you live and learn
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Zuk-D-Limit
Articulating


Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Odometer: 904
Location: Birmingham



PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive tried both and to be truthfull i found the 1.6 to restrict more as it has a huge middle pot. On top it doesnt fit properly so 1.3 does the job, although the option i want to do it a proper manifold with a staright ppe and one back muffler Laughing

By the way nice write up Andy Hamilton Cool

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Herve, lets go out and play in the mud!!!
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suzuki_barmy
Winch Assistant


Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Odometer: 90
Location: tewkesbury



PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ive done a 1600 conversion, i used a sammy engine mount bracket on passenger side and vitara engine mount bracket on drivers side. i used this bracket on drivers side as the sammy one wouldnt bolt onto the vitara engine. also i have not disposed of the c brackets. i did also use the sammy engine rubber mountings on both sides.

i did get the engine to bolt in this way but it just doesnt seem right.

any suggestions on what is the best ideal way.

the way it is now the engine sits far to high cant close bonnet.

please help i need to go off roading and get away from the wife..
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Andy Hamilton
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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Odometer: 2772
Location: Deep in Northumberland mud



PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used all standard samurai mounts minus the c spreader on the drivers side.
The mount has a gap on the bottom of a couple of mm but has been solid on mine for 6 months of abuse.

The engine is taller than the original so you must make sure you have a samurai bonnet on the car as it is taller then the 410/413.

You can not use the air filter from the vitara as you will never close the bonnet. You need to use the samurai metal carb top with just a standard bit of black drainpipe (1 spacer") as the seal. Mine does shut with more of a bang but it does shut and lock.

Rob Storr sells adjustable mounts.

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suzuki_barmy
Winch Assistant


Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Odometer: 90
Location: tewkesbury



PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the help!!!!!!

i havev a 413 samurai which has the bonnet you was talking about, when you mentioned about using the samurai mounts does this mean:

sammy eninge mount bracket and mounting on passenger side + c bracket

ON THE DRIVERS SIDE, sammy engine mounting bracket and sammy mounting minus the c bracket

THE ONLY PROBLEM I HAD COME ACROSS IS TRYING TO BOLT THE SAMMY ENGINE MOUNTING BRACKET ON DRIVERS SIDE, THE BOLT HOLES ON THE ENGINE DONT ALIGN UP WITH THE BRACKET. IT IS ABOUT 2ml out.
did you modify to fit or did you use the vitara one
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Sooty Zooki
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Joined: 16 Nov 2003
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Location: Beverley, East Yorks



PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds far too easy Andy! I'd be tempted to do this right now if I did'nt have so much money and time invested in the standard engine.
From experience in installing and removing the standard sami engine, how do you think the 1.6 compared in weight?

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Reformed Suzuki Samurai owner (but still has a 02 Jimny!). 1993 Fourtrak 2.8 TD Intercooler.
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Andy Hamilton
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Odometer: 2772
Location: Deep in Northumberland mud



PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't remember what mount I used because I had the engine in a pile of bits. Fitted straight in without the C spreader. You do not brake anything so you could go back to original if needed.

Sooty. I think the engine is not too much extra weight as it is identical and only adds 3" in height, maximum 50kg.

My 205 atacamas let me down yesterday as the mud was too deep and my front drivers side tyre has the makings of a tread lift. Robs 750's absolutely flew through everything but I think there was a screw loose behind the steering wheel.

I'm off to buy some new tyres. Going to 235's but don't know what tread pattern until I look in the book and get my pin out. Laughing

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Sooty Zooki
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Joined: 16 Nov 2003
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Location: Beverley, East Yorks



PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Andy.

When you say tread lift do you mean coming off the carcass? Bit concerned by this coz I got same tyres fitted to mine atm. How long you had them fitted, how worn etc?

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Reformed Suzuki Samurai owner (but still has a 02 Jimny!). 1993 Fourtrak 2.8 TD Intercooler.
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suzuki_barmy
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Joined: 03 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheers mate i think ill stick to the vitara mounting bracket on the drivers side and get rid of the c bracket. that should do the job...
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rhinoman
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Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Odometer: 3277
Location: Brinkworth, Wilts



PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_undertaker wrote:
Quote:
· Original exhaust.

IIRC the exhaust port sizes are different, so you should be using a 1600 manifold to avoid choking the engine.I used a Janspeed manifold with mine and had to do some heating and bending where there was a small meeting with the chassis.


As this thread has bumped back up again, I'll amend my original reply. On mine I have found that although the 1.6 exhaust ports are significantly larger than the 1.3 ports the 1.3 manifold is almost perfectly matched to the 1.6 ports Confused .

__________________________________
2000 Vitara 4u2, 3+3 lift, 33s, winch, safari rack, steel front axle and 5:83 R&Ps, LWB brakes
1986 SJ413K Pickup, 1.6 conversion
2006 Jimny JLX+, stock
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cynic-al
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Odometer: 6049
Location: scunthorpe


1989 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

excellent, now if you could do one for the 1700D? Surprised
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Tim Pink
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Joined: 20 Dec 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark
I would say there is less than 15kg difference between the 1600 & the 1300. I can fit each one on my own without an engine crane, the 1600 is a bit more of a struggle though. Block is almost identical, alternator & starter are the same (weight wise), engine mounts are the same. The main difference will be in the head & associated ancillaries. For a 1600 it is very light & I bet it has one of the best hp to weight ratios.

Tim
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rhinoman
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you missed a step. The top engine to box bolts on the 1.6 are bigger diameter than the 1.3 bolts so the top holes in the bellhousing need to be drilled out.
Also on mine the original 413 drivers side mount had to have the holes elongated to fit the 1.6 block.

__________________________________
2000 Vitara 4u2, 3+3 lift, 33s, winch, safari rack, steel front axle and 5:83 R&Ps, LWB brakes
1986 SJ413K Pickup, 1.6 conversion
2006 Jimny JLX+, stock
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Andy Hamilton
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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My adapter plate came with the smaller sized bolts. The plate was cut slightly off so I just bolted them up. My starter did not mesh 100% so I rotated the gearbox with the slack in the bolt holes.
Your way may be better for initial alignment but does not give any wriggle room

Regarding the drivers side mount, everyone has there own way but I do think the method I used is one of the cheapest. Laughing

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rhinoman
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Joined: 04 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Hamilton wrote:
My adapter plate came with the smaller sized bolts. The plate was cut slightly off so I just bolted them up. My starter did not mesh 100% so I rotated the gearbox with the slack in the bolt holes.
Your way may be better for initial alignment but does not give any wriggle room



The top bolts go into tapped holes in the engine block, did you get longer bolts that go right through?

__________________________________
2000 Vitara 4u2, 3+3 lift, 33s, winch, safari rack, steel front axle and 5:83 R&Ps, LWB brakes
1986 SJ413K Pickup, 1.6 conversion
2006 Jimny JLX+, stock
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cynic-al
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Joined: 14 Nov 2006
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1989 Suzuki SJ

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what does the adapter plate do, just move the bolt holes?
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Andy Hamilton
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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
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Location: Deep in Northumberland mud



PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just because there are a couple of new requests for the engine conversion, I thought I would just bump this back to the top.

Other bits which may be of interest:
Fitting the engine without the conversion plate http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=6804&...hlight=conversion

Also the wiring of the 8V injection is covered here http://www.yankeetoys.org/mini4x/efiswap/efiswap.htm

A few people have had problems with the starter not meshing properly. There is a simple fix.
Loosen the engine to gearbox bolts. Get a big pole and rotate the top of the gearbox towards the drivers side. Nip up the bolts. You normally only need a couple of mm.

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flying_fridge
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheers matey i was looking for that link nearly all afternoon....will now save it for further reading as i am about to do this conversion............... Wink Laughing Very Happy Wink
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Raver
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Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

also very much appreciated.
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thomas w
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Joined: 30 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brilliant!!!
nw i can do it cometime
i was gonna put a GM diesel into my sj bt it woulda been a tight fit
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Henry.
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Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Odometer: 2825
Location: north wales


1992 Suzuki Samurai

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting reading.

im doing mine in the next few weeks, got the whole vit , so take engine out and then the 1.3 n swap over.

one question.

do u have to take the g box out?

i have no body lift, and on the 1.3 im running a webber.

so with the standard vit carb top, will my bonnet close?

im looking for a skinny starter, i think my 16v fule injection vit might have one, but done anyone know for sure?

thanks henry

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Never be afraid to try something new... after all the arc was built by amateurs, but titanic was built by professionals.
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bigdave
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alrright chap, basically i got all the bits mr hamilton said, took box outta truck and sat it beside 1600.

first swapped clutch flywheel, standard sammy mounts with c spreaders, spaced pass side wit two washers on top two bolts (you'l see), then re drilled the bolt hole on the drivers side c spreader further back, bout 15ish mm i think, basically as far back as you can get it on the flat front of the c spreader (sorry no pics, only use 3g dongle, too slow) any way, thats mounts sorted.

now the sump, 1300 one sorta fits, gotta hammer the **** out of it where the sump meet the **** guard cos it hits on crankcase bolts, then alter yr strainer- you need the 1600 bit where it goes into oil pump and basically the rest of the 1300 one with the backet slightly altered!! trial and error here until the sump fits on!!! without fouling the internals.

now the box.

re drilled top two holes to 12mm and used 19mm m12 bolts to connect it to engine, they re cut themselves.

then i took the studs out of the bottom two holes on the gearbox and put them back in but from the other side, backwards as such, so they facing the wrong way.

now with the engine and box together, put a 19mm, bout 4" long bolt thru the bottom engine holes for the box, and weld them to the reversed studs. i wish i had pics!!! now you have 4 lined up holes!!! lovely!!

i used a skinny starter from a 1300, and the 1300 spacer plate, slightly modde. than with the gap round the box and engine i just used some black high temp silicon!!!

also you just have to gring the 1300 clutch cable bracket edge down so it fits, again you'l see this when you offer it up!!!

one more thing, you'l have to make a bracket of some description to hold your throttle cable, its now toooo long!!!

think thats it!!! sorry for the essay!!!

ps if some words dont make sense its cos the 'B' is tempramental on my computer thanks to my 2yr old carefully removing it for me!!!

Dave

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