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Max side slope?

 
 
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Turnip
Just got MTs


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Odometer: 192
Location: Gloucestershire



PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:43 am    Post subject: Max side slope? Reply with quote

Been doing a bit of steep slope logging with the Turnip wagon and I was wondering if anyone has seen published angles for the Mog 404?
I know my landrover is meant to be good for 45 degrees before you hit a rabbit hole and turns turtle!
I reckon I get to about 30 before I bottle! I know that it is all dependent on body styles and loads etc - but it would be nice to know what the factory said?

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dreamdrive
Gate Opener


Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Odometer: 27
Location: Chichester



PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:38 pm    Post subject: side slopes Reply with quote

Taken from wikipedia.....


Unimog 404
introduced: 1955
discontinued: 1980
width: 2130 mm (84 in)
length: 4900 mm
height: 2190 mm (86 in), cab height: 1600 mm (63 in)
cargo bed: 3000 by 2000 mm (118 by 78 in), 2130 by 2080 mm (84 by 82 in) with double-cab
wheelbase: 2900 mm (114 in)
turning radius: 13 m (42.6 ft)
empty weight: 2900 kg (6390 lb)
gross weight: 4400 kg (9700 lb)
tires: 10.5 x 20 (DOT)
fuel: 2 x 60-litre (15.9 US gal)
ground clearance: 400 mm (15.7 in)
fording (w/o equipment): 800 mm (31.5 in)
traverse angle
on a side slope: 42 degrees
approach: 45 degrees
departure: 46 degrees
climb: 70% grade
descent: 90% grade
average fuel consumption (gasoline): 10–14 mpg (US) (24–17 L/100 km)
engine: 2.2-litre straight 6 SOHC (Mercedes Benz M180) 80 HP (60 kW)
Shielded Distributor Ignition, 24 Volt Electrical System
2 Barrel Zenith NDIX-32 Carburetor
transmission gearing
forward: 14.93/8.23/4.47/2.46/1.52/1.0
reverse: 20.12/11.09
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Anthony BathMat Rushton
Mud Obsessed


Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Odometer: 3749
Location: Wigan Near Manc



PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i know dave has pushed his hard....
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D6 - Remember Folks, It Takes 8 Hours To Take A Front Diff Out On A 90...The Engine Has To Come Out As Well!
D8 - Skinny Dipping At D8 - Chief ****-Inist!
D9 I Pulled Pussy At D9
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Turnip
Just got MTs


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Odometer: 192
Location: Gloucestershire



PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:36 am    Post subject: Max side slope? Reply with quote

Thanks for that Tobes - i suppose I could have looked at Wikapedia myself!!
42 degrees is a helluva side slope isn't it? I think I would cop out long before that! As it was I had a good ton of Maple rings on board and the wheels were side slipping towards the river on wet grass at about a tyre width per rotation - brown trouser experience!

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shaggy
Articulating


Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Odometer: 560
Location: Manchester, UK


1961 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 404 Doka

PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When we had the crappy old bar tyres on, I pulled up on the side of a grassy hill, and it just carried on sliding sideways down the hill.

I jumped out! I think we used daves as an anchor to drive it back up.

jim

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Bright Orange Unimog 404 DoKa
www.foodfight.org.uk/mog
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minimog
Off-Road Guru


Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Odometer: 1700




PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just as a matter of interest did you have you difflocks engaged when on the side slope because by the nature of both wheels beeing locked together it would drag you down the sideslope with what ever tyres you had on Wink
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WHAT YOUR ASKED WHEN YOU OWN A MOG
"why have you put a merc star on that"
UNIMOG MOTTO
"IF IT CARNT BE FIXED WITH A BIG HAMMER"
IT MUST BE AN ELECTRICAL FAULT"
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shaggy
Articulating


Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Odometer: 560
Location: Manchester, UK


1961 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 404 Doka

PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't remember, but it also did it after it _should_ have stopped!
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Bright Orange Unimog 404 DoKa
www.foodfight.org.uk/mog
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Turnip
Just got MTs


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Odometer: 192
Location: Gloucestershire



PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:40 pm    Post subject: Max side slope? Reply with quote

Interesting comment that Minimog - I can see your logic. I must try it without the locks and see what happens? I had the rear in and the front open - may be better to leave them both open?
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wangaroo
Just got MTs


Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Odometer: 152
Location: in deep doo doo



PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: side slopes Reply with quote

Tobes wrote:
Taken from wikipedia.....



turning radius: 13 m (42.6 ft)

traverse angle
on a side slope: 42 degrees

climb: 70% grade
descent: 90% grade

May I as a Wannabe Mog owner offer my 2 pence worth?
I don't know how much faith I would place on the accuracy of the above figures. For example Turning radius of 42.6ft would give a turning circle of an outrageous 85.2 ft,! double that of a 110 Defender?
Gradient climb angle of 70% seems very conservative for a Mog, especially when 100% represents 45 degrees,and my old series 2 LandRover owners manual claims a fully laden gradient climbing ability of over 45 degrees.

Remember that due to propshaft torque reaction a vehicle will overturn more easily on a sideslope with the drivers side down than passenger side down, particularly when a lot of torque is being used, such as dragging logs around etc. I've rolled LandRovers on far shallower sideslopes than the published 45 degree maximum due to propshaft torque reaction.
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Turnip
Just got MTs


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Odometer: 192
Location: Gloucestershire



PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:40 am    Post subject: max side slope? Reply with quote

Mmm that's going to take some serious thinking about! On the Mog I'm not even sure which way the propshaft rotates! Because it has hub reduction boxes in the portal axles I know the half shafts go backwards. I will have to look at the diff and see which way the prop turns!
The other head scratcher is what effect the torque tube would have on this effect - there will be a torque reaction, but how is it resolved? Also does the torque reaction on the front axle work opposite to the rear?
So many questions!

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shaggy
Articulating


Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Odometer: 560
Location: Manchester, UK


1961 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 404 Doka

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The portals half the torque reaction, and the big ball and socket is where it would try and turn. It won't stop it, but friction must minimise it. Say 1/4 of the effect overall?

Have a look at this -


What's on top makes a huge difference. The rollcage on Ingrid hasn't made it fell different, but when we put the harvey frost crane in its new high position it raises the CoG frighteningly.

jim

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Bright Orange Unimog 404 DoKa
www.foodfight.org.uk/mog
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wangaroo
Just got MTs


Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Odometer: 152
Location: in deep doo doo



PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The propshafts rotate in the same direction as on conventional vehicles, just the diffs are inverted. Portals in themselves make no difference to propshaft torque, but overall final drive gear ratio does. For example a 7:1 crownwheel and pinion require only half the propshaft torque of a 3.5 crown wheel and pinion for a given amount of torque at the wheels . Mogs generally have larger diameter wheels than typical LandRover type vehicles. these require a little more propshaft torque to turn. so the effect is much higher than a 1/4, actually more than half.
As stated earlier a vehicle can be induced to roll at a much shallower angle that its static rollover angle due to propshaft torque when it is right hand down. Conversely propshaft torque can be used so that a steeper than rated side slope can be crossed when the vehicle is left hand down as long as power and traction is maintained. If traction is lost during the crossing the stabilising effect of prophaft torque is also lost and the truck will fall over. I have used this effect to advantage on quie a few occasions, but have also come unstuck once or twice when traction was lost or the engine cut out before completing the crossing.
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stuvy
Winch Assistant


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Odometer: 82
Location: Bedfordshire


1994 Land Rover Discovery

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi guys, just reading this post, id never thought of the side pull effect on prop shafts before, and i bet it certainly is a case of trial and error
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58 Simoncelli
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