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seriesdriver
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 Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:43 pm Post subject: P38 to be gassed
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Hi running a gas converted disco at moment.
Looking at getting a P38 4.6 1997
This would need LPG convertion
Looking for recomendation for converters in the West Yorks are that anyone has used to good effect on similar motor
Thanks in advance
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Rossko
Articulating
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Odometer: 757
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject:
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Make sure you get an injection system. Do NOT imagine you can save a few bob with a singlepoint mixer system on these, and be wary of an installer who thinks he can make it work too. It just ends up in a continual fight with the engine management.
Good luck, Ross K
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Cruiser
Just got MTs
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Odometer: 168
Location: Staffordshire
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:15 pm Post subject:
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Why would an injected system not fight with it? An injected system uses a vapouriser as does a single point system but instead of the gas being fed to a mixer it is fed to injectors which are controlled by an ECU.
The important factor is that the Range Rover ECU is fooled into thinking that it is controlling the fueling and a lambda feedback signal is fed to the ECU regardless as to whether the car is on gas or petrol. Both a gas injection or a single point system with lambda feedback could just as easily be used but they should use their own lambda sensor and not 'piggy back' onto the original sensors. The car will also require emulators to be switched in when running on gas.
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Rossko
Articulating
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Odometer: 757
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| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject:
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| Cruiser wrote: | | Why would an injected system not fight with it? An injected system uses a vapouriser as does a single point system but instead of the gas being fed to a mixer it is fed to injectors which are controlled by an ECU. |
Yup. Well, apart from liquid injection systems, but they are less common.
| Cruiser wrote: | | The important factor is that the Range Rover ECU is fooled into thinking that it is controlling the fueling and a lambda feedback signal is fed to the ECU regardless as to whether the car is on gas or petrol. |
Kind of. Single point systems may well try to 'fool' the RR ECU and that's where it goes wrong. Inevitably no amount of fooling will behave like a real engine and the RR ECU will be applying unnecessary compensations and/or detecting non-existent faults.
A decent LPG injection system operates as a slave to the RR ECU. It applies gas injector opening times based on what the RR ECU thinks it is doing to the petrol injection, plus fiddle-factors to account for physically different injectors, fuel, etc. But the upshot is that the RR ECU really IS still controlling the fuelling, exactly how the makers intended.
Operating in this way means that the LPG system doesn't need ANY kind of lambda sensor at all - that's the RR ECU's business. In practice the LPG system often is hooked to the lambda signals cos its handy for setting up and diagnosis, but they are not used to calculate LPG fuelling at all.
You certainly wouldn't fit a 'private' lambda sensor for this kind of system; and the only reason to fit one on a single-point system is that that particular equipment can't cope with the unusual type of sensor fitted to the RR. Save £20 on the gas system and spend £100 on a new sensor!
| Cruiser wrote: | | The car will also require emulators to be switched in when running on gas. |
Yup, a kind of 'dummy load' for the RR ECU so it doesn't think the petrol injectors are broken. On many systems the emulator circuits are integrated into the LPG ECU. All a standard part of any installation.
cheers, Ross K
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Cruiser
Just got MTs
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Odometer: 168
Location: Staffordshire
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| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject:
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| Thanks Rossko, very interesting!
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seriesdriver
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:48 pm Post subject:
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thanks guys, but the P38 turned out to be a shed so sticking with the gassed Disco 
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Cartman
Just got MTs
Joined: 29 Nov 2002
Odometer: 170
Location: Near the 'Ring of Stones', Wiltshire
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:49 am Post subject:
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The other issue is that almost all later LPG systems are sequential injection and few are 'single point' mixer systems. The 4.8 V8 is well known to not work well with anything other than AG/BRC/Prins.
Speak to any LPG specialist and they will confirm that. Unless their idea of a 'good' installation includes gaffer tape and silicone sealant to regularly refit the blown off air intake hose 
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Rossko
Articulating
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Odometer: 757
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject:
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| cartman wrote: | | The 4.8 V8 is well known to not work well with anything other than AG/BRC/Prins. |
... or most of the other twenty types of sequential LPG systems available. In fact, I can longer think of any brand that won't deliver if specified correctly for the power output.
But yes do avoid mixer systems like the plague on 4.0 / 4.6 
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