Hello from Hull and ideas for a whacky 404 project...

dippyhull

Hi,

I just joined and thought I'd say hello... always looked up at the Mog
as I have been a Landy man so far - but also renovate fire fighting
pumps/engine and my Dad has grey fergie stuff in mower and 3t trailer,
link box, loader etc...

Anyway we are starting to think of a 'classic 4x4 lorry' as a
transporter... so have hunted you guys out as I fancy it being a mog.

So we'd like to build a new tool based on a pre 1973
vehicle, with the following assets...

Beaver tail (or perhaps tilt n slide or just tilt)
Crane/Hiab - not big probably ~3tonne/m
Load capacity 2-2.5 tonne
Load length ~14ft at least.(plus the bit eaten by the crane...)

Looks like a Hiab 030 weighs in at about 800kg inc the legs...

so

Are there any pre '73 Unimogs that have the length and the payload ~3.3t

As my limited knowledge suggests not. We may have to go for Bedford 4x4
but I like them less Smile

Or I wondered if I could get say a 404 and the rear chassis off a
scrapper, pop them together and get 6x4 with the required payload and
length all at once... anyone done it?

Also how do you go on with Tachographs on say even a standard 404? it
is over 3.5t but really don't want one cos of annual costs!

As I said wacky project... so this is early planning stages but I would
love to know what a tatty 404 or similar would cost, indeed what a rear
half scrap chassis with axle might cost if it were possible to get one!

jollygreen · Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject:

Sounds like an interesting project - I'll sell you this if it helps...

'57 404.1 non-runner. Axles fine, chassis reasonable, engine and tranny need overhauled but should be OK. Cab is very poor indeed although I do have a hardtop cab in good nick if you're interested...

dippyhull · Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject:

Might be interested sounds like you guys are into popping other engines in anyway so that is not so hard... - but not this week - first need to sort of assess:

The whole Tachograph thing and weather I have to go for an SVA if I add an axle. Cos that would probs or poss result in a post '73 registration which will cause tax to be paid which is a bit of a downer on such a classic...

Then again some of you might think I am about to cut up a classic!

Dave

jollygreen · Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:27 pm Post subject:

Yeah it's a big job allright.

I reckon she'll end up with her axles under a landie and the rest in a scrappies...!

Good luck though and let us know how you get on!

dippyhull · Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject:

That would be a shame - if the chassis is good enough and cab can be replaced Smile

steve p · Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject:

dippyhull · Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject:

Seems I am ok with tacho rules at least at the moment - it would be historic so seems to be ok even to tow the trailer (2.5t in itself) so long as no goods carried for reward.... anyone agree... or dis?

So next problem would be do I need to do an SVA once adding an axle?

Dave

jollygreen · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:46 am Post subject:

is that the one from Insch, I nearly bought that but couldnt get it up the road Rolling Eyes

[/quote]

Yeah that's it - I live near insch too. I bought it with the intention of restoring it but another Mog, a baby and building a new house mean it's not going to happen any time soon!

Steveb · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject:

Hi ,

not sure about your SVA question re 6x4 but i have these

Hoping to ressurect one as a re-bodied mog, axles off another for my 90. I've had an enquiry about 2 front axles for a Challenge Land Rover so could end up with a spare back axle.....

Don't get too excited ..they are much rustier than they look! Laughing

what about a nice ZIL that would do all the stuff you want to do Cool

cheers

Steveb

steve p · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:50 pm Post subject:

dippyhull · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:59 pm Post subject:

Steveb · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:45 am Post subject:

there are 9 mogs ....all the chassis are like new, however the cabs are all very rusty from the bulkhead/ dashpanel back ,there are maybe 1 or 2 that could be repaired to the original body style, but it would be a big job imo. All the engines are weather siezed so hard to tell if any would be useable. some have on board air for trailer brakes.
The speedos are all low kms 9k - 30k so the running gear should be good- they have been sitting in a field for nearly 20yrs , the guy i've bought them off bought 200 in from the german army and these are what is left.My plan is to rebody 1 with a modern diesel for use as an overland travel truck ,and to use a pair of axles on my 90 Cool

looking forward to some portal fun

Steveb

jollygreen · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:06 am Post subject:

dippyhull · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:07 am Post subject:

shaggy · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:40 pm Post subject:

Hi Dippyhull.

A 404 won't take that big a hiab. We're fitting a 1.5 ton metre one, and I think that's probably the limit.

Apart from the weight and the load put on the chassis, it will just roll in bends, even a harvey frost mounted high affects the COG dramatically. I'm hinging the crane, so I can lie it flat, and planning on using two 5 ton hi-lifts as the support legs.

A 416 sounds about right - they exist pre 73 and are much more heavily built (some have anti roll bars) - more money though, but they may well come with hydraulics already fitted.

You're more than welcome to come over to cheshire and look at ours if you like.

Catch you soon

jim (in Austin, Texas, about to drive to memphis)

dippyhull · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:50 pm Post subject:

Hmm I thought a 416 was rather shorter - which will not suit - so is that true (I am a major newbie here Smile

) but I guess you can lengthen them if you have to... I will go look at the spec for the 416....

Smile

Dave

dippyhull · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject:

Presumably also no good with a tractor on the back - I never considered that the crane would destabailse it cos the load would be heavier - or am I wrong can I not really put that much load on it either?

I saw somewhere the Gross weight for the 416 is 6.5 tonne which might be cool actually - but so far have not found the rest of the weight data for it... anyone know where to look (don't say on the makers plate Smile

) trouble is it would need stretching for length which will screw the break over angle - as opposed to the 404 which would have the extra axle...

Hm mm

dippyhull · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject:

So to do that with a 416 I'd have to stretch it - seems a big ask both to get right and to plate properly - what does everyone think.... or are there things I could do to the 404 to stop it falling over - fit anti roll off some suitable width vehicle etc...

Is that what you meant was the problem?

Dave

minimog · Off-Road Guru Joined: 25 Nov 2004 Odometer: 1700

just reading through your post are you going to run the exstra axel or you just using it for exstra load duities
how are you going to drive the third axel ?
how are you going to mount it to the chassis "with links"
why instead of messing with exstra axels just get a u1000 lwb or a u1300 which would do the job in standard form
and not become a never finished monsta garage filler

dippyhull · Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:07 am Post subject:

Well - axle is just for load bearing - although I did muse with [crazy idea] adding a hydraulic motor to it[/crazy idea] just to provide some power during driving on slippy surfaces - obviously would not be any good on say rock crawl but might give the edge if fully laden on a muddy gateway etc Smile

(Also I have no idea how the PTO/hydraulic pump arrangement works on them)

I was intending re using a rear chassis end and axle whole - but again as for the drag links or whatever, I have not got close enough to one - sort of why I asked here in the first place this sort of thing - is there space to get them in?

I had dismissed U1000/1300 as being too new - both for purchase price and road tax/historic status... but I still think even the 2150 is a about 1ft too short... unless we had excess rear overhang which is not the end of the world - as I am not looking at extreme off road ability that is inherent in the standard mog!!

You are nearly right it might be monsta garage filler if we had a big enough garage not already full of things - but would hope it would progress as me Dad is doing most of the tricky time consuming bits like fettling the body and building the bed - so long as we can get the chassis welded by someone competent and get the running gear going...

I probably overstated the size of crane - just after one with an elbow rather than just a shoulder - so 3tm is probs enough btw...

I need to get to see one in the flesh me thinks... otherwise it is off to bedford land.... that doesn't seem to work either - they are too heavy to leave 0.5t for the crane and 2.5 for the load and be under 7.5t Sad

frostie · Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:54 am Post subject:

What about this?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Zil-131-6X6-Russian-Ex-Military-Truck_W0QQitemZ290153910219QQihZ019QQcategoryZ18308QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

whip off the decontamination unit, obs ur uncle! And at Â£3000 it seems a bargain!

dippyhull · Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:22 am Post subject:

Well I had seen those ZIL things in piccies and no specs and assumed they must be HGV i.e. >7.5t and ignored them - 3k does seem reasonable at that condition!